The jobs come over to MMP if MEBA can’t fill them that is correct. But that means they come over as in just for a hitch. MMP will fill them for whatever the job length is worth (120 days, 90 days etc). MMP unfortunately can not hold the MEBA jobs as permanent jobs. The MEBA deck jobs are called in the MEBA hall, then open board/ all ports then eventually night card, MEBA retires then MMP. So MEBA gets first bud before they are sent to MMP each time. This is the same for engine jobs with MMP being sent to MEBA.
Although what you outlined can happen (MEBA job being filled by an MMP job seeker) in a bind, it doesn’t mean that you’ll be standing there at the MEBA job call with competing MMP members to grab the job. Rather, if it can’t be filled through MEBA, as a last-resort it can go to MMP. At least this was my understanding of how it works.
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I know there are a set list of MEBA deck officers that are allowed to come over and bid for MMP jobs in MMP halls. But there is no MMP members that are allowed to go to MMP halls and bid on their deck jobs. But yes all MEBA jobs go to to the MEBA first before sent to MMP.
I’ll try to get more info about this cross over list MEBA has
Right, so as I said, I don’t think it’s accurate to say there is less competition for Deck jobs with MEBA considering there are less deck jobs to begin with. But that could just be my understanding.
Also; I can’t imagine that if OSG decides to go with AMO that the union will say “great, now let’s lower these wages!” All the unions are having trouble manning their ships, having a fleet with higher wages is the best way to ensure they stay manned. But that’s just my opinion, I’m sure someone will refute it with some anecdote about how AMO is cheap or whatnot.
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What’s the 6% taken out for?
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Thing is, lots of these companies are scratching their heads like it’s some big mystery as to why they can’t man their ships. I guarantee you if there were pay increases on the ships notorious for having hard-to-fill jobs the issue would be resolved overnight. But once again, this seems to be the biggest mystery of all time for some of these companies.
Keystone pays more, but is it worth moving over a few $$ – not really. As in most employment moves, money is rarely the main reason. Anyone with a Master Unlimited or CM Unlimited and PIC experience is constantly getting recruited–by everyone.
Companies are limited to what they can say, legally. Anyone who has worked with organizing will understand that.
This all started from a Capt and C/E who are bored and love to tweak things up.
I’m not bashing MEBA, the MEBA represented personnel are great to work with. But for Junior Officers, what’s the benefit? Currently, anyone with a license, PIC, and can fog a mirror, can get a job on a tanker. If you’re any good, or rather, not dangerous, you will have a position as long as the market remains strong. If they go union, no more permanent 3M positions. Talk to anyone who went to Keystone and they’ll tell you it is a problem. Great, a CM gets extra pay in port…you deserve every penny of it, because you will have new 3M’s every tour.
Only time will tell how it plays out, should be a fun ride.
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If you go MEBA, no more permanent 3M positions*
My mistake. Other option–go AMO and take a 30% pay cut. You’ll get free training…awesome. 2 tours as a 3M with the increased pay and you can pay for your own training – MEBA or not
I know that
Hey! All the stuff I’ve tried to say!
Yea this is all from Pete B…I’m sure you know who he is.
MEBA has historically had a well managed pension plan. There are sources anyone can use to judge the financial stability of the plan. Most MEBA retirees i know get over $80,000 per year from their pension which combined with their other investments and social security affords them a very comfortable retirement.
I have seen 401ks mentioned assuming a 8% return. That is ludicrous. Over time one is lucky to get 6%. The 401k the income you receive depends on the year you retire. if the stock market is down, like it is now, you are sol. The pension is the same no matter the year you retire. Remember the anti union propaganda comes from companies that do not want to contribute to any fund they cannot use as collateral. especially the pension fund. They also HATE paying matching social security contributions, they’d rather put that money in their pocket.
I laugh whenever i have heard someone say the pension may not be there when they retire…and your 401k will be?? I have heard the same BS about social security for over 50 years. Social security underfunded? No problem, eliminate the income cap on contributions and collect contributions from the fat cats they live off stock dividends and hedge fund income. They don’t pay squat now.
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Why would AMO get a new contract and then lower the wages? What are you basing this on? It behooves them to keep pay where it is and then use OSG as a baseline for the rest of the tanker fleets within the union.
Also; why would anyone want to pay for their own training? Why would you need to wait two hitches to pay for your own? That’s a pretty bad counter argument.
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It would be in an act to entice OSG to come under the AMO umbrella and dissuade them from going MEBA I assume. Or would be be the other way around…OSG using the opportunity to lower wages, becoming signatory to AMO manning, and at the same time tap into a larger pool of tanker mariners.
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It is referred to as “vacation dues”. It is part of the union dues structure. (Something to keep track of if one itemizes their taxes)
Because then you’re not beholden to a union shipping board for the next 2 years, and if you don’t, you don’t have to pay a $12,000 bill you get in the mail 4 years later.
Fuck AMO.
Seems a little aggressive on the response. If you don’t want to join a union I don’t give a shit. I’ll stop sailing before I sail on a tanker so I’m not looking to take anyone’s job if they join AMO.
I’ve also never heard anyone outside of people who took the DP courses and then ran to the gulf get a bill in the mail looking for reimbursement. It’s usually one of those “if you don’t screw is we won’t screw you” deals. But I’m sure you, or you know someone, or know someone who knows someone, or know someone who heard about someone that got a bill in the mail for 12k after they took a BST class and sailed non-union.
Plus if you’re permanent with OSG and not leaving, what does it matter if you’re “beholden to the shipping board”?
Gotcha, so it’s additional dues. @Sailor51 should probably revise his list, AMO doesn’t take any dues out of vacation checks.
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The reality is, most officers without representation, do not want representation. If they did, they would already be represented, or working for a company that has representation.
To put up a post titled “OSG signs with AMO” is in really poor taste and does nothing but rile up the ignorant.
Cheng is probably working for the company he is bashing. If that’s the case, he’s a special kind of guy. I’d say – get a hobby…something not as malicious as rattling a bunch of tankerman, most of whom have a challenging enough time handling cargo safely. Maybe try using the gym on your ship.
Deck Officers with any experience at all, know people represented and can get the info they want if they reach out. The scare tactics, while an interesting strategy, will most likely not work and only solidify the people who would rather not be represented.
During COVID, it’s no secret a large number of ships were laid up… all the senior officers were kept employed during the COVID mess. They didn’t have to do that. If they wanted to illegally force a Union and lower wages, they had a prime opportunity to do it.
As for AMO, my experience with them has been horrible, although I know plenty who have had good experiences.
I’ve always thought highly of MEBA, but they really drop down on the list of options after this post. If you want to make a push, make an honest push. This approach isn’t that.
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Go talk to some of the folks who got bills from AMO. I was one of them, and it was $12,000. Mine was on the low end.