Not in the AMO!
which is fine, but your framing makes it seem like the choice is either MEBA with only pension or AMO with only 401k. This is not the case. MEBA has 401k (with options to contribute all the way to the max limit by the IRS, $66k for 2023) IN ADDITION TO its pension.
No problem, we have all hit the wrong button and lived to regret it!
From what I have heard the few that didn’t join MEBA that went to Keystone have now joined MEBA. Apparently they were making comparatively less than those who were in MEBA.
I would have to ask but to verify but I heard this too. I heard they had to work with keystone for a minimum of maybe 2 or 3 years and then keystone would cover the initiation for them.
I have not heard any of that from one or the Captain’s that I know, but YMMV.
For anyone (especially OSG mates who may be forced to make a decision here soon) who has questions about the various MEBA plans (vacation, medical, MPB, pension, training) this website:
Has all the publicly available info about all of MEBA’s plans.
What I’m meaning to say is I would not let a pension sway my decision. Today there is a pension. Yesterday other unions had pensions, now they have folks with no retirement. To me its about as good as getting paid in bitcoin, maby it will be worth something in 20 years, probably it wont.
Quarterly dues:
Master/Ch. Eng. $443
Ch. Mate/1st Eng. $418
2nd Mate/2nd Eng. $395
3rd Mate/3rd Eng. $372
Initiation: 5k
You can put everything on a credit card if you want to churn miles and reward points, it doesn’t have to be taken out of your vacation check.
I have never knowingly contributed to the VAF with AMO. Its what the V stands for, voluntary. I could be dumb though, but Ive never seen it on a statement. SIU got me when I wasnt paying attention one time, but not AMO.
I think for the OSG guys this is kinda a moot point unless they want to go somewhere elses, you’re free to move around up down and sideways in a company with AMO, and OSG is free to keep direct hiring their cadets to be mates and engineers. Dispatch is a little wild and clunky but you’re just as free to get direct hired as everyone else is, especially if youve worked there before. If youre itching for a change of scenery you can take a job off the board with little drama. If anything they are quick to the draw with dispatching, these days you’re more likely to be Shanghai’d than snubbed.
Not our strong suit, but it would make no sense for the OSG guys to take a pay cut to join AMO, and I wouldnt expect them or ask them too. Honestly Id hope we could go to the other companies and say, “this is what OSG is paying our guys, pay up.” Subcom had to put a pretty big rider on their contract to bring pay up because they were losing everyone, and I know they had a come to Jesus talk with Tote when they couldnt crew up the ARC ships.
100% accurate. When the offer was made to the Deck officers to accompany the ships to Keystone, Joining MEBA was an option. If they did, the 4,000.00 initiation fee was waived, if they did not, they could stay without joining. At least in the short term.
They don’t have a real pension anymore.
summarizing for those OSG mates AMO vs MEBA
AMO
Higher dues
Higher initiation fee
No vacation dues
Lower wages
More deck jobs - most coastwise
More overall competition for deck jobs
Permanent jobs on tankers
Online job board
No pension
Lower MPB
401k offered
Coastwise ATB contracts with shorter hitches
Training and lodging at STAR center
No cross over agreement with other unions
MEBA
Lower dues
Lower invitation fee
Vacation dues
Higher wages
Less deck jobs - most deep sea
Less overall competition for deck jobs
Permanent jobs on tankers
In person job board at hall
Pension
Higher MPB
401k offered
No coastwise ATB contracts with shorter hitches
Training and lodging at MITAGS and Calhoun
Cross over list to take employment off MMP board
Not sure how many on this forum will make it too retirement due to cirrhosis of the liver or skin cancer getting them early.
Some of the points that would normally turn off people from MEBA such as having to get your job out of a hall, compete with other higher book members and not having a permanent job aren’t relevant. The OSG mates would keep their permanent jobs and not have to sit in a hall.
You say that based on the math of expected jobs available vs candidates?
If the jobs/pay are viewed as good, it will attract more candidates, then they will be in a hall and competing for the job won’t they?
Is MEBA going to abandon the principals it follows for other members?
I’m not sure what you mean by that? Is it in reference to permanent jobs?
Take a look at the Chevron agreement or for example the Keystone agreement.
MEBA for Keystone let all OSG mates coming over keep their permanent jobs 3M to Master. All future openings for 3M are filled off the board but 2M and above is company hired.
Yes true which is why more mates have been joining MEBA. However there is a disparity due to the amount of members retiring and also the fact that MEBA has been adding more deck ships to the fleet over the past several years. Additionally, they achieve some significant contract raises lately ie Liberty Maritime.
Yes also the amount that have a PIC and willing to work on tankers is significant less than the amount of AMO mates who have PICs and want to work on tankers.
Knowing what I know about non-union tanker mates, I’d be shocked if the old timers voted, provided there would be a vote, for any union. If they were forced to, the old timers would probably vote for MEBA, because of the years of experience of the engine department on those specific ships. If you clear house and bring in AMO engineers who’ve never sailed on those ships, some being quite quirky such as the ATC ships now owned by OSG, it would be a shit show and a half. Not saying it wouldn’t be possible, however.
Younger mates might be enthusiastic about becoming organized, just due to the crap deal they get when it comes to classes and training. But if you start talking about 20-30% pay cuts, having to clear the hall might not seem so bad in comparison (yes, I understand that they probably wouldn’t even need to do that seeing as though Chevron and Keystone mates don’t need to).
Either way, I would imagine that if this goes through there’s going to be a lot of people packing their bags and hanging it up.
If MEBA can’t fill their deck jobs don’t they go to MMP? So saying less overall competition for deck jobs probably isn’t exactly accurate is it? MMP has been notoriously competitive for deck, hence a lot of mates joining AMO so we wouldn’t spend money we didn’t have sitting in a union hall waiting on jobs.