Off topic from Australia subs thread

Perhaps the gov is just waiting for the collapse of china and then they can save the money for the refugee boats full of chinese?

Or the other way around maybe?
Wait for global warming to make Australia unlivable due to drought, wildfires, floods and cyclones (take your pick)
Maybe the flow of refugees will be the other way?
If not to China, then to ANYWHERE still livable.

You may believe the globe is warming but people actually live in localities. My locality is bloody freezing. We’ve just had the coldest, wettest, windiest, most miserable winter and last month was over 2C below the long term average. We want heat.

We caravanned north to get some sun in winter and it was freezing up there too. They sold out of fan heaters in the tropics.

It’s the sailing season FFS, and my hand is shivering holding my beer! Came last on Saturday as a result.

Got the dogs clipped short in anticipation of a hot summer and they’re shivering too, wondering what they’ve done to deserve this.

We want local and global bloody warming. NOW.

There isnt global warming in Australia and for 50,000 years there has been drought, flood, wildfires and cyclones and sometimes all at the same time.
Its called the weather.

Others know it is climate:
https://www.agric.wa.gov.au/climate-change/climate-trends-western-australia

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Yes the climate has changed since they might or might not have measurements but so has it has for thousands of years.
Australia is also moving north,
The magentic pole moves,
Our constellation is gettting closer to the Sun,
The ice age may or may not have finished,
Grapes grew in England 200 years ago and again now,

But you think 2 stroke chain saws caused all this?
Can you tell us all what the date was when the world stood still?

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Yes that is correct, the earth’s climate has has changed for thousands of year, but never as fast as the last 200 years or so.

That includes even in some little “two pub town” in the outback with a broken thermometer that hasn’t recorded any changes in a hundred years.

And since we are in the process of killing a good argument with facts, here is more from an official government source in Oz:

So, according to you, the climate started rapidly changing in what we now call the Little Ice Age? Thank God for that. Cold periods in our past were times of poor crops, famine and disease. Warm periods were times of prosperity and expansion.

Here’s a more sensible opinion from someone who can speak authoritatively on past climate.

Those little towns in the outback which you mock, were settled by hardy, resourceful people who endured and overcame hardships and nature to carve out the basis of one of the most successful nations on earth. The thermometer (if they had one) was meticulously read and hand recorded by conscientious people every day - those records are still retained - so I’m sure someone might have noticed if it was broken. Only now, in the age of computers, have the zealots had the means to store those readings and surreptitiously change them hoping we won’t notice. I could cite many examples including Australia’s hottest temperature recorded, underlined and emphasised on the paper but now disregarded as the zealots want the hottest days to be in the present era to accord with zeitgeist.

Check out the authors of that study and tell me they aren’t zealots. They make predictions for the future. Tick them off as they fail to come true if you live that long.

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The old thermometer is the best data in australia and is the actual data not homogenised like the GOv’s. The owners are not government employees scared of their next pay cheque.
Not sure what the government thermometers recorded for the last 500 years to base their data on.
The Gov are well known for changing the data.

“Homogenization of temperature records is considered necessary to account for changes in instrumentation, changes in site locations and changes in the time at which temperatures were taken.”

They dont like the fact there has been the same thermometer at the same place for 80 years as it doesnt agree with the governments view.

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The Little Ice Age explained:

Not always:

In any case, both of these phenomenon were limited in scope, area affected and time, not global.

All your answers are here, debunking everything you say.
https://joannenova.com.au/2019/07/erasing-2000-years-of-the-medieval-warm-period-little-ice-age-found-on-every-continent/

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For an unbiased view on things, look for a TV personality with a case to make:

JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic’s Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).

We are truly suffering a pandemic of whackjobs, a global infection of right wing freaks:

https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Joanne_Nova

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With the caveat that I’m not denying “climate change”, I’m still trying to get my head wrapped around “human caused”. Here’s why: If it’s man-made, then when did it start? At the industrial revolution? Ok, so when was commencement of IR? 1850ish? So what was the human population on the planet then? Of that population, how much was the “industrialized nations”? I’m thinking mostly Western Europe & America [sorry, it’s racist, I know!! LOL].

Anyhow, let’s fast-forward to 1944. If I remember my history, during the Battle of the Bulge, it was the coldest winter in Europe in 40 years. So 1900ish, only 50 years after the commencement of the IR it was really, really cold. . . [not warm].

Same questions about population and industrialized nations. . . Oh, and lets add a little smoke and dust from a bunch of explosions since 1937. . .

Then in 2012, while pulling into Antwerp on a Ro-Ro, the pilot was commenting that it was the coldest winter since '44.

So now we are lead to believe that humans are causing climate change??? I don’t believe we have been at it long enough to cause it. . . Although, I’ll concede we have the potential, if we are stupid, to increase the rate of change. But I can’t accept that humans caused it. Not yet.

The CHICOMS & Indians need to be smart about their industrialization. The S. Americans need to stop their deforestation in the Amazon. But forget about stopping cow farts!!

And lastly, my apologies if I’ve hijacked the thread with this post.

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There is a difference between climate and weather.

Yes. Agreed. However, since “global warming” didn’t fit the narrative, it was changed to “climate change”.
In any event, my point is that I’m not accepting [yet] human causation of climate change. It will change regardless; but stupid humans can undertake activities that influence it. Hell, in 1969 when I was still in high school, Time magazine was screaming about the coming ice age. . .

Apparently the sky has been falling for a while.

climate change is the weather, global warming must of failed the test?
If all subs go to nuclear there will be so much less global warming it will get cold, well in the winter anyway…

Global warming is happening because the climate is changing.
Climate is a trend over a long time in one location, or area, not one hot summer, or one cold winter in one place, or even a larger part of the word, like the continent of Europe.

Global warming is a change of climate over the entire planet earth and on average over a long period of time (decades/centuries)

What can cause climate change?
Large Vulcanic eruption, or a nuclear war, can cause large amount of particles in the stratosphere that blocks sunlight, thus cooling of the planet for a period. If that period is long it is climate change. Water vapor has the same effect caused by more cloud cover, which has a cooling effect.

Melting sea ice due to warmer Arctic climate means more open water, which means less heat reflection, thus causing more warming, causing more ice to melt.

Particles pollution from burning forest, or unfiltered exhaust from coal or oil fired power stations has mostly local effect, causing acid rain downwind from major sources.
Sometimes particles spread with the jet streams and fall on glaciers, snowy mountains and field far away as “black snow”, which also result in less reflection.

The amount of certain gasses in the atmosphere has a major effect on global climate CO2 is well known as a GHG, but methane has a much larger effect relative to PPM count in the atmosphere. Much of the GHG emission is manmade, directly or indirectly.

Warming of the Arctic cause melting of the permafrost, which release methane that has been stored away for centuries, causing more GHG, causing more warming.
Melting of the permafrost is initially cause by warming of the rest of the planer, but becomes self-generating once it reach a certain level.

You are right; it is not as simple as either the “doomsayers”, or the “naysayers” make it out to be. But if we wait until one or the other becomes proven it MAY be too late.

PS> I don’t expect to be here to see it any which way it goes.

Humans are hanging on by their fingernails on a rock hurling through space. Our sun is moving at 828,000 kph as its orbit takes 230 million years around our galaxy. No one knows what’s ahead.
Closer to home we have a lake about 238 square miles called Lake Taupo.
Lake TaupĹŤ is in a caldera created by a supervolcanic eruption which occurred approximately 26,500 years ago. According to geological records, the volcano has erupted 28 times in the last 27,000 years. It has ejected mostly rhyolitic lava, although Mount Tauhara formed from dacitic lava.

Taupō has been active for 300,000 years with a very large event known as the Oruanui eruption occurring 26,500 years ago. It was the world’s largest known eruption over the past 70,000 years, ejecting 1170 cubic kilometres of material and causing several hundred square kilometres of surrounding land to collapse and form the caldera. The caldera later filled with water to form Lake Taupō, eventually overflowing to cause a huge outburst flood.[5]
If it does it again I suggest Darwin as a good place to watch it, but I think that the weather will seriously change.
Yellowstone is another good candidate for bringing some excitement into our lives.

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For those who have access to WPO: