Odds and Ends

[Lee_Shore]

[Hogsnort]

Before or after?

[Steamer]

Definitely after.

[ombugge]

But will he fool enough voters to win re-election??

[SeaEagle]

The eligible voters have the right to vote.

[DeckApe]

@Dutchie

In the pre-Trump era, the US would have always been at the forefront of action like this.

In the pre-Trump era, the US would have always been shelling out cash while other countries participated by subsidizing other self-benefiting side projects.

[Dutchie]

Yes, I confess, the rest of the world are all profiteers. Hail Trump!

[DeckApe]

@Dutchie

Yes, I confess, the rest of the world are all profiteers.

The usual state of affairs was when something happens the world would wait for the United States. Then each state decided how much and how soon if at all to participate. It’s wonderful that the United States can now decide when and how much to participate just like everyone else.

Look at China and WHO. With the United States out of the way China has increased their donation from last year’s USD 84B to USD 200B. Bravo! That’s how to act like a superpower and not a moocher.

How nice it is that other countries can lead on COVID-19 especially with the United States being a bit impaired at the moment.

[Dutchie]

@DeckApe

How nice it is that other countries can lead on COVID-19 especially with the United States being a bit impaired at the moment.

How did that come about?

The Netherlands is a fixture in the top five of largest foreign investors in the US. The economic ties between the countries support 825,000 American jobs. Simply stated, the US and the Netherlands have a partnership, unlike what DeckApe thinks, that works.

Nearly $60 billion in US merchandise and services are exported to the Netherlands every year. Texas, California, Louisiana, Illinois and Washington are the top exporters to the Netherlands. Profiteers? Nah! Profiting of each other? Yes!

Competitors? Yes, but in a healthy way. With an export value of 90.3 billion euros, the Netherlands is the world’s largest exporter of agricultural goods after the United States. Not bad for a country with the size of a postage stamp. New York is approximately 122,283 sq km, while Netherlands is approximately 41,543 sq km, making Netherlands 33.97% the size of New York. New York was once Dutch territory…

Conclusion is that we don’t need any favors from anybody in this world. However, we are still thankful for the Marshal aid that put us on our feet again after WWII, although this was done as part of a plan to create a buffer zone of strong nations against the Russian bear. If not, we might have been speaking Russian now.

[DeckApe]

@Dutchie

How did that come about?

“Democracy is messy, and it’s hard. It’s never easy.”

[SeaEagle]

I think you are on to something here Dutchie. Some forget, or never knew, including our own “Patriots”

[ombugge]

@Dutchie

However, we are still thankful for the Marshal aid that put us on our feet again after WWII,

It also served a very big role in the post-WWII era in the US. It ensure that factories in the US had somewhere to “get rid of” the products they produced. Otherwise there wouldn’t have been many jobs for the returning soldiers.

[SeaEagle]

Disagree Bugge

[ombugge]

The Marshall Plan, it should be noted, benefited the American economy as well. The money would be used to buy goods from the United States, and they had to be shipped across the Atlantic on American merchant vessels. But it worked. By 1953 the United States had pumped in $13 billion, and Europe was standing on its feet again. Moreover, the Plan included West Germany, which was thus reintegrated into the European community. (The aid was all economic; it did not include military aid until after the Korean War.)

Source: THE MARSHALL PLAN (1947)

#####U.S. Domestic Procurement

Champions of the Marshall Plan hold that its authorizing legislation was free of most of the potential restrictions sought by private interests of the sort to later appear in foreign aid programs. Nevertheless, restrictions were enacted that did benefit the United States and U.S. business in particular.

Procurement of surplus goods was encouraged under the Economic Recovery Program legislation, while procurement of goods in short supply in the United States was discouraged. It was required that surplus agriculture commodities be supplied by the United States; procurement of these was to be encouraged by the ECA Administrator. The ERP required that 25% of total wheat had to be in the form of flour, and half of all goods had to be carried on American ships.52

In the end, an estimated 70% of European purchases using ECA dollars were spent in the United States.53 Types of commodities purchased from the United States included foodstuffs (grain, dairy products), cotton, fuel, industrial and raw materials (iron and steel, aluminum, copper, lumber), and industrial and agricultural machinery. Sugar and nonferrous metals made up the bulk of purchases from outside the United States.

Source: The Marshall Plan: Design, Accomplishments, and Significance - EveryCRSReport.com

[Lee_Shore]

Congratulations for highjacking another thread, Humbug, to point out how evil America really is.
We only help others when there’s something in it for us. It’s shameful and extremely embarrassing.
If only we’d minded our own business; just think how much happier you’d be, living under the Nazi regime.

[ombugge]

@Lee_Shore

to point out how evil America really is.

Where did I say that? America First is nothing new and not necessarily wrong or bad.
70+ years ago the Marshall Plan helped both Europe and the US. Nothing wrong with that. To point that out is NOT anti-American, only facts.

PS> As it is practised now it probably harm America worse than anybody else. (But that is another discussion)

@Lee_Shore

just think how much happier you’d be, living under the Nazi regime.

The war in Europe was not won single handedly by the Americans, but the support, before and after the US entered the war, is much appreciated.
The Lend/Lease program was especially important in the early part of the war (1939 -1941) when Britain was facing The Blitz and the Battle of the Atlantic. At the same time Germany invaded more and more European countries. (US stayed neutral)

When Hitler invaded the Soviet Union he started “the beginning of the end” of the war, with the actual turning point being the Battle of Stalingrad. After that it went down hill for the German war machine:

A Victory Of Courage And Coercion: British Historian On Stalingrad's Legacy

Don’t get me wrong, the US effort on the Western Front was important, but the war was decided on the Eastern front.

[tengineer1]

@ombugge

Don’t get me wrong, the US effort on the Western Front was important, but the war was decided on the Eastern front.

That is true and an often overlooked fact. Hubris destroyed Hitler. The weather and suicidal determination of the the Russians to survive was Hitler’s downfall. Had his full force been directed toward western Europe alone things would likely have turned out much different.

[SeaEagle]

History has proven invading russia in the winter is a bad idea. Ask Napoleon.

[tengineer1]

@SeaEagle

History has proven invading russia in the winter is a bad idea. Ask Napoleon

You’d think Hitler would have read that book. His generals did.

[SeaEagle]

In a cynical perhaps way, glad Hitler didn’t read that bit of history. The generals knew it was gonna be a shitshow. He had Europe by the balls until that dumbass decision. Glad for us he did that.