Odds and Ends

And has created another monstrous threat to democracy.

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By all means, let’s not forget the Soviet Union. You can pretend Stalin could have defeated Hitler all by himself in which case he’d have occupied all of Europe. It so happens that FDR and Churchill pushed back hard after the war, otherwise, not only the eastern half of Germany, but a very large portion of Europe would have ended up behind the Iron Curtain. In that case, he would have taken the rest once the US got out of the way.
You can rewrite history all you want but if the US had not entered the war, you’d either be speaking German or Russian. You’re a pustulent troll oozing venom toward the people who saved your sorry ass.
If you spewed a fraction of the vitriol against Lenin’s or Hitler’s successors as you do here, you’d have ended up either in a concentration camp or a frozen gulag and whining that the US should come to your rescue. Enjoy your freedom.

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True, the Murmansk run was not a dairy route at horrible losses to our young Merchant Marine to help Russia. 142 young cadets lost their lives in the war effort. Russia didn’t give a shit later, Stalin was pissed that Hitler lied to him. It was the lesser of two evils for USA at the time.

The only threat to democracy is the ignorance of its own people. That is the thing about democracy. People are free to make poor decisions and destroy themselves if they are a majority. However, in the USA the majority does not necessarily elect their leader which is disconcerting. They don’t even elect their representatives by geographical boundaries. The USA is a democracy in name only. It is in fact and practice an oligarchy.


Yes the Arctic Convoys from the UK and Iceland to Murmansk and Arkangelsk was hell on earth.
Over a hundred ships were lost between Aug.1941 and May 1945 and many allied seamen and naval personnel lost their life in the effort. There were ships and seamen of many nationalities that participated and who lost their life:

The Arctic Convoys are commemorated by a monument in St.Petersburg, Russia:

Many of the surviving participants got Russian medals after the war:

(Some as recently as last year)

We’ve gotten a ways from Covid-19. @Kennebec_Captain can you fix?

Well dbeierl, lets talk about that horrible shit. You first

I have sailed with two masters on Shell tankers who were on those convoys as younger officers. Both were deeply effected by their experiences during that time. For instance having to plough through a sea with scattered Mae West lifevest lights, colleagues who were torpedoed up front in the convoy and then being unable to help them. The caravan must go on and cannot stop…

They only talked about their experiences when they were drunk which they often were. That was there medicin and we respected that and always kept them out of the wind. PTSS was not yet discovered and no real medicine or treatment was available.

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If you can keep up with the multiplying tangents :astonished:

I relished every day I sailed with those gentlemen. They are gone now, but not forgotten, Fuck this covid shit, hopefully we can forget that someday.


My father was a recipient of a Russian medal for serving in a corvette on escort duties to Murmansk. At wars end he was serving in the heavy cruiser HMNZS Gambia and was in Tokyo Bay for the surrender after joining the navy in 1936.


Cool shit Hogsnort.

My father likewise, in LCS(L)3 82.

Er, he didn’t invade in winter, just didn’t win before winter. Big difference. The sticking point was the name of the city, Stalingrad. Stalin couldn’t let it fall and Hitler couldn’t let it go. Basically what we call a big swinging dick show. Sometimes such things matter in war.