A shipmate of mine just completed a C-Nav course. He already holds a 1600 GRT Master NC and Master of T/V NC… The lady at the NMC told him to get MOTV Oceans he now has to complete an “Oceans TOAR” and pass the apprentice Mate exams- WTF? He also is a Designated Examiner for signing off TOARs- Can he sign himself off? If I recall correctly there is only a NC/Oceans combined TOAR. I think I smell bullshit here… I am taking C-Nav myself in a few months and will face the same dilemma… any thoughts or insights will be greatly appreciated.
I am hoping that JD Cavo will give some insight here…
I had master of towing near coastal & passed the celestial test & was given oceans on that & my 1600
It’s been a while but I thought oceans and NC were there same exact requirements as far as the TOAR stuff goes.
That’s the way I thought it should happen…
Right that’s what I thought too… Only difference between NC and Oceans is C-Nav
Regardless of the TOAR issue there is no requirement for him to take any exam. That’s one of the stupidest statements I’ve heard attributed to an NMC evaluator.
[QUOTE=fishyluke;195634]A shipmate of mine just completed a C-Nav course. He already holds a 1600 GRT Master NC and Master of T/V NC… The lady at the NMC told him to get MOTV Oceans he now has to complete an “Oceans TOAR” and pass the apprentice Mate exams- WTF? He also is a Designated Examiner for signing off TOARs- Can he sign himself off? If I recall correctly there is only a NC/Oceans combined TOAR. I think I smell bullshit here… I am taking C-Nav myself in a few months and will face the same dilemma… any thoughts or insights will be greatly appreciated.[/QUOTE]
The TOAR for near coastal and oceans are the same, it’s called “Near Coastal/Oceans.” If he did that TOAR to get his near coastal endorsement, he would not need another to go to oceans.
The above notwithstanding, there could be a situation in which what he was told is valid. If he obtained his towing endorsement through grandfathering and never completed the NC/.Oceans TOAR, he might need to now. If he was grandfathered to his NC towing endorsement and never completed the TOAR, he might need to now. The grandfathering was only to the extent of the previous authority to operate a towing vessel, and anyone seeking to raise the grade or increase the scope (including route) would have to meet the full requirements for the new endorsement.
DEs or STCW assessors cannot sign themselves off. If they need to be signed off, they should not have been approved as a DE or an assessor.
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I think this may be the case as he has been steering tugboats for 20 years.
[QUOTE=fishyluke;195671]I think this may be the case as he has been steering tugboats for 20 years.[/QUOTE]
He should ask NMC for a “Reconsideration” of their decision (use that word). He can supplement that request with anything that will support his assertion that he doesn’t need a TOAR. This way if they uphold the decision, he will get a written explanation of why a TOAR is required.
JD Cavo said: “DEs or STCW assessors cannot sign themselves off. If they need to be signed off, they should not have been approved as a DE or an assessor.” Thanks for the info Mr. Cavo. I have passed it on to him. I’ve been thinking about the above quote from you… Here’s a question: Who signed off the first TOAR? Probably the guy I’m talking about…I think he should qualify for reconsideration.
Thanks again!
Please let us know how this turned out.
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He’s still waiting for a reply… I will update the thread when we get an answer. License transactions have been hella slow lately…
Six years later and I’m still wondering how this turned out. Can you share the resolution, Luke?
I just went from nc to oceans taming cnav without submitting a new toar . It’s the same toar doesn’t remake since to do it all over. I was told by and evaluation lady. that that have some new people in the towing department
Haha… so he ended up getting the MOTv oceans after all. He was grandfathered in because he had his MOTV before the TOAR process began. The funny thing was the person who signed his DE letter was Mr. Cavo himself. Lol.
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