Now for something completrely different...an update on the r/v DAUNTLESS

been working aboard daily preparing for seatrials and except for a couple small items, the mains are ready to rock however now the generators are causing me fits. Here my not being engineer trained is showing.

the gensets will not run at a steady rpm…they are going from 1500 to 2000 no matter what I do with the governor controls. The Navee manual for the switchboard gives me no troubleshooting clues regarding this. Lest anyone has forgotten, the DAUNTLESS has Detroit Diesel 371 generators with Woodward hydraulic governors. The speed is set with a +/- knob on the switchboard but that doesn’t seem to work now.

Does a speed switch actually control rpm or just read the rpm and signal if the generator is too fast or too slow? I thought it was the latter? What in the switchboard other than that knob controls the rpm?

the batteries however are flipping excellent! 26.7vDC!

Are they both fluctuating? Are the speed controls motor driven on the governors?

[QUOTE=injunear;190257]Are they both fluctuating? Are the speed controls motor driven on the governors?[/QUOTE]

actually I should have stated that it is the port generator doing this…I haven’t got to even try the starboard one yet.

and yes, motor controlled

[QUOTE=c.captain;190258]actually I should have stated that it is the port generator doing this…I haven’t got to even try the starboard one yet.[/QUOTE]

May be as simple as adjusting the droop.

[QUOTE=c.captain;190251]been working aboard daily preparing for seatrials and except for a couple small items, the mains are ready to rock however now the generators are causing me fits. Here my not being engineer trained is showing.

the gensets will not run at a steady rpm…they are going from 1500 to 2000 no matter what I do with the governor controls. The Navee manual for the switchboard gives me no troubleshooting clues regarding this. Lest anyone has forgotten, the DAUNTLESS has Detroit Diesel 371 generators with Woodward hydraulic governors. The speed is set with a +/- knob on the switchboard but that doesn’t seem to work now.

Does a speed switch actually control rpm or just read the rpm and signal if the generator is too fast or too slow? I thought it was the latter? What in the switchboard other than that knob controls the rpm?

the batteries however are flipping excellent! 26.7vDC![/QUOTE]

C.captain, get an engineer. Lots of retired old farts like projects like yours, keeps them out of the way of their wives.

[QUOTE=injunear;190260]May be as simple as adjusting the droop.[/QUOTE]

isn’t the droop adjustment for when the genset is connected to the board? right now the problem is diconnected and I don’t even want to try to connect until I have stable rpm/frequency

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[QUOTE=tengineer1;190261]C.captain, get an engineer. Lots of retired old farts like projects like yours, keeps them out of the way of their wives.[/QUOTE]

got anyone in mind?

Pull the top off the governor. (3 screws?)You’ll see a wedge with single slotted screw. Depending on the application, you can loosen the screw and slide the wedge up or down until the RPMs stabilize, then tighten the screw.

Google “GM diesel governor hunting” and you will find every possible cause and solution known to the past 4 generations of users. It isn’t always the governor either but it isn’t the switchboard even though you need to find out why the speed control doesn’t appear to work.

so the consensus here is that the problem is in the governor and not the controls for it however here is a connection schematic for the generator controls

I must say that I really do not want to mess with taking a governor apart…they can be messed up too easily by a boob like myself

will be trying the starboard gen in the next couple days to see what I get there but I have to clean all the connections to the speed switch first as they are corroded.

I am also working to dig out some soft wood on the outboard deck edge and want to get it sealed with epoxy while the weather is dry and warm so I am going in two directions at the same time. So far that is the only punky wood I have found and it is not bad however it needs to be nipped in the bud before that turns into a monster

Not trying to be a smart ass but it helps to post really clear pics. When you come here and ask questions like this it can be very helpful. Take well lit in focus photos of the inside of the switchboard pan, and the back of the door where the controls are mounted. Snap really good pics of the engine, governor and any wiring, terminals or junction boxes in the circuit. Make sure to include brand and data plate of any component you are asking about. Close ups of all terminal blocks are nice as well. Tastefully done engine room porn gets everyone’s attention.

The only thing that speed control switch does is operate a little motor that changes the force on the speeder spring in the governor. When you increase the spring pressure it speeds up the engine, when you reduce it, it slows the engine. When the setpoint speed is reached the force on the governor flyweights and the spring are balanced and the rpm is constant.

When the engine hunts as you describe, it is because there is slop or stiction in the linkage between the governor and the rack or the governor internal damping adjustments. Get the manual for the specific governor you have installed and follow it to the letter. Adjsting a governor is not rocket science but experimenting with a governor can get ugly in a hurry.

Is it a Woodward SG governor with the little Bodine motor on top?

[QUOTE=c.captain;190262]
got anyone in mind?[/QUOTE]

You ever hang out early in the morning at the Bay Cafe on Nickerson? Get the pancakes, stare at the crab boats, and keep your ears open. Reckon you’ll find your engineer.

[QUOTE=DeepSeaDiver;190282]Is this your type? But your’s has the black motor on top.[/QUOTE]

I have the pleasure to tell you that you are WRONG!

this is what I have

besides nobody asked a bloody Imbezzel like you anyway

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[QUOTE=Fraqrat;190277]Not trying to be a smart ass but it helps to post really clear pics. [/QUOTE]

yeah, yeah, we all know that you want ER porn but I don’t have any yet however I will get some photos today when I go aboard to work on this SHIT

That’s it, the SG. Try tweaking the compensation valve first before doing anything else. Warm up the engine and oil before doing that. A cold engine will often hunt.

Have you changed the oil? How long has she been sitting with no load and normal operating temperature performance testing? Are the injector sliders free? are all the corresponding linkages lubricated and free? Any springs look funny? actuator rod ok? After you adjust the compensation needle valve keep these things in mind if needed? Remember you can determine the cause of failure with different vessel systems with a good visual inspection.

The most common reasons for hunting (We call it searching) is the Gain abnormality at the speed governor.

The speed of the engine is detected by means of the magnetic pickup, of reading the number of teeth passing through on the flywheel of the engine. (Ii is a teethed ring around the flywheel)

This magnetic pick up counts the number of the teeth at any moment and transfers this data to the electronic governor.

The governor evaluates this data and arranges the speed of the engine accordingly to achieve a constant speed of 1500 or 3000 RPM. (Possibly yours is 1500 RPM or 1800 RPM in the 60 Hz case) At any moment and at any load.

Now the level of the gain is important when evaluating the data from magnetic pickup to the governor.

The speed of the engine and the load applied on the engine is floating. When load increases, speed goes down, when load decreases, speed goes up.

High gain level means quick response of the engine against the load variation. (Speed also varies accordingly). The quick response does not always give good results. High gain level means high feedback and this brings oscillations.

The governor on the engine continuously tries to find the correct speed and infinitely adjusts the speed. But the feedback data from the magnetic pickup is exaggerated by the high gain value, therefore readjusts and readjusts again, and it goes on like a closed loop.

Try to lower the gain setting, or play with the droop setting if existing. But not change the speed setting on the governor. Otherwise your constant speed as well as the frequency changes.

An exception to this was a few of the Woodward governers, we used to take students over to one of the patrol boats (they had 2 x 3/71 Detroit gen sets), and showed them what happened when a governor was set on zero droop - it used to hunt wildly, this was why droop requirements were needed for gen sets (1-1,25%) and main propulsion engines (8-9,5%)

I truly want to see you be sucessful c.captain. You have a huge project there and I commend you for that.

the whole issue is moot now as I restarted the gen this time at a lower speed and allowed it to run a while before dialing it up to 1800rpm. this time no hunting and was able to put it online with no problems. tomorrow will be the stbd genset to try again

with the switchboard powered, I was able to run the steering pumps and both are good. cycled the ram from inside the steering compartment but not from the wheelhouse yet. need another person for that one as there is no rudder angle indicator present (the Navee took all of them off the bridge) new rudder indicator on hand but needs to be installed still.

also was able to grind out alot of punkiness on the port side deck edge and got a nice coating of epoxy on the bare wood to seal it up before the rains return.

.

[QUOTE=c.captain;190313]the whole issue is moot now as I restarted the gen this time at a lower speed and allowed it to run a while before dialing it up to 1800rpm. this time no hunting and was able to put it online with no problems. tomorrow will be the stbd genset to try again

with the switchboard powered, I was able to run the steering pumps and both are good. cycled the ram from inside the steering compartment but not from the wheelhouse yet. need another person for that one as there is no rudder angle indicator yet (the Navee took all of them off the bridge) new rudder indicator on hand but needs to be installed still.

also was able to grind out alot of punkiness on the port side deck edge and got a nice coating of epoxy on the bare wood to seal it up before the rains return.[/QUOTE]

Awesome Captain. You got this, one system / project at at time.

[QUOTE=DeepSeaDiver;190314]Awesome Captain. You got this, one system / project at at time.[/QUOTE]

having your support makes me fell just so gosh darned souper inside…

Go Team!!!

[QUOTE=c.captain;190313]the whole issue is moot now as I restarted the gen this time at a lower speed and allowed it to run a while before dialing it up to 1800rpm. this time no hunting and was able to put it online with no problems. tomorrow will be the stbd genset to try again

with the switchboard powered, I was able to run the steering pumps and both are good. cycled the ram from inside the steering compartment but not from the wheelhouse yet. need another person for that one as there is no rudder angle indicator present (the Navee took all of them off the bridge) new rudder indicator on hand but needs to be installed still.

also was able to grind out alot of punkiness on the port side deck edge and got a nice coating of epoxy on the bare wood to seal it up before the rains return.

.[/QUOTE]

c.captain? No.

c.engineer? No.

c.moron? Yes Houston we have a winner.