ok, some of you might remember when I bought an Allis Chalmers genset a while back. I have just got around to trying to start it but so far no good…here is what I can say
it is getting fuel to the injectors because I am getting white mist from the exhaust when I crank it
I have bled the pump and injector lines of all air
it is cranking at least at 150rpm
there is no reason to suspect injector timing would not be correct (injector pump not touched)
there is no reason to suspect valve timing would not be correct (timing gear cover never off)
fuel is flowing through the filter and into the pump
there is plenty of compression
it will kick with ether
I will say that it does appear that I am getting a lot of mist from the exhaust when I crank it and wonder it the fuel metering is not correct and too much fuel is being shot into the cylinders. How much mist would be expected?
Lastly, does anyone here have experience with these Roosa Master injection pumps made by Stanadyne?
Before you start throwing parts at it, make sure the fuel shutoff solenoid is operating and governor linkage is free. Then heat the beast, put infrared lights or a fan heater on it for a few hours.
Is the fuel fresh? If nothing else give it judicious squirts of ether to keep it rolling over on the starter or use a propane torch to heat the inlet air … not both at the same time though or we might hear about you rather than from you.
If it hasn’t run for a few years it probably has some cylinder rust or stuck rings creating low compression, that would account for the white smoke. It should “cure” itself after a little running.
I really hate to suggest this, but maybe a judicious squirt of starting fluid might get things going. IMHO this is a last resort. Hope you get it going.
If it’s not fuel or batteries I don’t mess with it but that still leaves a couple things.
I’d consider draining the old fuel and putting in fresh, that way you can eliminate the possiblity of bad fuel.
Also change the fuel filters. We used to run a AC 190 (hp) farm tractor, it had two filters, the one in plain sight that looks like an oil filter but there was second small one hidden away with metal screen that gets plugged up. I’ve run into that a couple of times. A smaller engine maybe only has one?
I’m no mechanic but I don’t think there is anything wrong with a little squirt of ether on stuff that’s not been running for a while. If it “pops” on ether it’ll probably start.
[QUOTE=Kennebec Captain;180972]Also change the fuel filters. We used to run a AC 190 (hp) farm tractor, it had two filters, the one in plain sight that looks like an oil filter but there was second small one hidden away with metal screen that gets plugged up.[/QUOTE]
I’m not really a diesel technician, more of an operator but I have always heard and its even in the tests that white mist is an indication of water. Not sure if that applies when just turning over. Injection pressure for the injectors might have to be adjusted Individually too. You can make your own bench tester with a hydraulic hand pump. I would try that last though
[QUOTE=Kennebec Captain;180972]I’d consider draining the old fuel and putting in fresh, that way you can eliminate the possiblity of bad fuel.
Also change the fuel filters. We used to run a AC 190 (hp) farm tractor, it had two filters, the one in plain sight that looks like an oil filter but there was second small one hidden away with metal screen that gets plugged up. I’ve run into that a couple of times. A smaller engine maybe only has one?[/QUOTE]
the fuel is fresh but the primary filter is old although it has a thumb pump to push fuel into the injection pump which it does so I was believing the filter was not plogged yet could it be restricting the flow enough?
anyway, didn’t get a chance to work on it today…Monday likely
keep the suggestions coming…they help
Updated - - -
[QUOTE=Steamer;180946]Before you start throwing parts at it, make sure the fuel shutoff solenoid is operating and governor linkage is free. Then heat the beast, put infrared lights or a fan heater on it for a few hours. [/QUOTE]
governor linkage and shutdown solenoid are both free
haven’t tried any heat on it…been about 50deg each day so not very cold outside
[QUOTE=c.captain;180981]the fuel is fresh but the primary filter is old although it has a thumb pump to push fuel into the injection pump which it does so I was believing the filter was not plogged yet could it be restricting the flow enough?
[/QUOTE]
I think it’d be worth while to change the filter.
I’d focus on the fuel system in general, even if the engine is worn or has other problems if it’s getting enough good clean fuel it’ll usually start and run. If it’s not the fuel system I generally can’t go any further but most often that’s far enough.
I think the next step would be that the rack is freed up but that’s not something I’d mess with.
Be careful with the ether. If I have a fuel problem and trying to get one running, I’ve used WD40 or even some gasoline in a spray bottle. Much easier on everything than either. I had an old 6v92 that had air leakage problem on the supply side…if it sat too long I had to WD40 in the intake to get her going enough to get running (it was in an old bus I eventually scrapped).
If it doesn’t have glowplugs (and I doubt it does), do what other said and get some heat on the thing. Get a oil pan heater, or see if it has a block heater installed.
Before you dig too deep, exhaust all the simple stuff first. Like mentioned, make sure there isn’t a hidden secondary fuel filter. You can try hooking up a small 5gallon outboard tank with a primer bulb to the injection pump too to ensure the lift pump isn’t bad.
Edit: 50 deg may be too cold to start a worn engine. Get some heat on it and try again.
[QUOTE=cajaya;180978]I’m not really a diesel technician, more of an operator but I have always heard and its even in the tests that white mist is an indication of water.[/QUOTE]
What I remember from my diesel classes is white smoke means you’re burning coolant, blue smoke means you’re burning lube oil. I’m not sure exactly what he means by white “mist” though, that makes me think he means something other than smoke.
[QUOTE=c.captain;180981]the fuel is fresh but the primary filter is old although it has a thumb pump to push fuel into the injection pump which it does so I was believing the filter was not plogged yet could it be restricting the flow enough?[/QUOTE]
I would change the fuel filter before anything else, and make sure there’s no secondary filter like KC mentioned.
[QUOTE=c.captain;180981]haven’t tried any heat on it…been about 50deg each day so not very cold outside[/QUOTE]
That could be cold enough to give you trouble but it seems unlikely. If the filter work doesn’t fix everything then try heating it.
[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;180993]What i remember from my diesel classes is white smoke means you’re burning coolant, blue smoke means you’re burning lube oil. I’m not sure exactly what he means by white “mist” though, that makes me think he means something other than smoke.[/QUOTE]
When they are cold and not firing, the unburnt diesel coming out the exhaust looks white.
Hmm. How do you know it has good compression? Did you check the compression on each cylinder? I think the people saying you have to heat it and replace the fuel filter are most likely correct. I’m trying to rack my memory. I did once work on an old vessel with a really old diesel, you had to manually operate the fuel rack/governor when starting it. It resembled a mushroom button you had to push all the way in located on the outside of the governor.
Also, you mentioned it came with a switch gear, is that currently hooked up? Are there any alarm indicator lights? If it has an electronic protection system sometimes those things are all interlocked together and the switchgear is required to be hooked up to run. The only reason I know that is because I came across a schematic when troubleshooting a gen with an electronic protection system that stated there was one setup where the switchgear was required in order to run, and another where it wasn’t. Hopefully it isn’t anything as complicated or involved as that.
[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;180993]What I remember from my diesel classes is white smoke means you’re burning coolant, blue smoke means you’re burning lube oil. I’m not sure exactly what he means by white “mist” though, that makes me think he means something other than smoke.[/QUOTE]
Yes you are right, smoke not mist is how it’s always stated. I just thought he was using the term mist instead of smoke for some reason
Have you checked your compression? It has low hours but the rings could be bad or just need a little heat to reseat them. A little oil in each cylinder can help ease bow by (if that is the case) and could possibly boost compression enough to fire it off.
[QUOTE=KrustySalt;181000]Have you checked your compression? It has low hours but the rings could be bad or just need a little heat to reseat them. A little oil in each cylinder can help ease bow by (if that is the case) and could possibly boost compression enough to fire it off.[/QUOTE]
it does have compression but perhaps not enough? This could be it but don’t have a compression tester yet…will need to get one
After looking at the picture, I see there is a drain valve on the Fuel Filter. Have you tried draining the filter?
In a situation like this, I would start out with new Fuel Filters. Then I would crack the line to each injector at a time while cranking her over. This will show that you are getting fuel through the pump to the Injector.
It might be worth your time to pull the intake piping off of the Turbo and see if you can spin the Turbo freely by hand.
Now to the Starting Fluid, I would be careful of using too much as it can score the Liners. The WD 40 was not a bad idea. If as you say that it was kick over with the Starting Fluid Then I would do as I said and change the FOF and then check for fuel at each Injector Line.
I second the WD-40 suggestion. It’s just as volatile as the ether, plus you’re putting a little lightweight lube right where you need it on otherwise-dry metal parts to protect them and help get it all moving. I’ve used it successfully many times.
