Not so 'steady' in AMO

[QUOTE=J Garfield;143484]I believe Doell was Bethel’s mouthpiece too.[/QUOTE]

I don’t think Doell would want the voting members to know that he is a lawyer. Generally, lawyers are not held in high regard.

I received in the mail today my ballot, a flyer from Doell and a second flyer from Bethel. Bethel answers some of the money issues brought up by Doell. Bethel seems to be ignoring the job numbers and the Great Lakes rep thing. As an aside, Doell’s flyer was colorful, small without much meat to it. Bethel’s flyer was mostly black & white, thicker and filled with fluff.

I may end up leaving my vote for president blank. I am so undecided that it is not funny. I have decided who I will vote for Sec./Tres.

Doell’s a lawyer?!?! Would a lawyer spend 42 years on AMO staff in publications and lobbying? The flyer without much meat? That says healthy to me, vital info and no fat.

[QUOTE=J Garfield;143534]Doell’s a lawyer?!?! Would a lawyer spend 42 years on AMO staff in publications and lobbying? The flyer without much meat? That says healthy to me, vital info and no fat.[/QUOTE]

There are practicing lawyers. Then there are lawyers that have passed the bar but really don’t work much as a lawyer. Many people who pass the bar have trouble getting work as lawyers. I have one of the those kind of lawyers in my family. Lawyers truly are a dime a dozen. Many lobbyists are lawyers. Doell’s dad was a mariner who started out in the BME(now AMO). His dad was probably his connection to get him a job.

Doell’s flyer was flashy and thin without much substance to it. Maybe I shouldn’t have said without meat. Bethel’s flyer was dull and thick without much substance to it.

It is clear that you have made up your mind that Doell is your guy. I am undecided but I know that I won’t change by what someone posts here. I don’t expect that I anything I post could swing anyone who has already made up their mind either. Being on the fence, I am still working it out my thoughts of who I will vote for. I have trouble voting for either side as neither candidate seems particularly appealing to me. I am going to have to hold my nose when I vote.

[QUOTE=Truth;143019]There is no need to respond. Election is already over. Bethel and Leonard have already won![/QUOTE]
Don’t count your chickens before they’re hatched!

What bothers me is that Doell has zero sailing experience. Many of our former union bosses had zero to none but they insisted on supporting USCG training mandates because that generated money for the STAR center. The union rules need to change that all union Officers must have sailed for a certain period of time, maintain their license, but most importantly still ride ships every few years to understand who it is that the union actually represents. You will then see these career union official dopes running for the door and the union can go back into the hands of the members.

[QUOTE=MattyB;143537]What bothers me is that Doell has zero sailing experience. Many of our former union bosses had zero to none but they insisted on supporting USCG training mandates because that generated money for the STAR center. The union rules need to change that all union Officers must have sailed for a certain period of time, maintain their license, but most importantly still ride ships every few years to understand who it is that the union actually represents. You will then see these career union official dopes running for the door and the union can go back into the hands of the members.[/QUOTE]

I agree that Doell’s lack of sailing experience is a big knock against him. Bethel’s experience isn’t all that but at least he sailed. Other other hand, Bethel’s time was many moons ago. Things have changed. If I quit 10 years ago and just came back, it would take some time to adjust to how things are now. I agree that the union officials should have to sail some to keep fresh with the membership. I also think this should apply to instructors not only in our union school but also at the academies.

how to mark your ballot

respect my authority, and all other AMO members, cast your vote for president like this, don’t be scared! I’m not

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respectmyauthority and all other AMO members cast your vote for AMO president and Secretary treasure like this, don’t be scared. I’m not

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[QUOTE=RespectMyAuthority;143538]I agree that Doell’s lack of sailing experience is a big knock against him. Bethel’s experience isn’t all that but at least he sailed. Other other hand, Bethel’s time was many moons ago. Things have changed. If I quit 10 years ago and just came back, it would take some time to adjust to how things are now. I agree that the union officials should have to sail some to keep fresh with the membership. I also think this should apply to instructors not only in our union school but also at the academies.[/QUOTE]

Then talk to the USCG about that last one. CFR material right there…

[QUOTE=RespectMyAuthority;143332]Paul(C Judge),

I don’t doubt where the numbers come from. You know what they say “The figures don’t lie but liars figure”. The numbers might even be worse than that.

I don’t think that your website gives AMO members any new info. In particular, the pension thing is a rehash of old material. Everyone who has sailed for any length of time knows that the pension is based on “benefit days”. So is vacation pay. Big shocker there, it has been that way for at least 26 years.[/QUOTE]

sorry respectmyauthority you are incorrect, pension is based on pension credits which is based on man days. 200 man days for a full pension credit 60 days can be vacation days; and vacation pay is based on days worked such as 20 vacation days for 30 days work and that pay could be based on a benefit wage that is different than your actual wage earned so there are many holes in your statement. This makes me question the validity of some of your other statements as well.

and although you may take offense to what I said I ask you not to vote for Bethel

We interrupt this program to bring you this from Doell’s site. Wow!!!

Don Cree’s ‘Pensionpalooza’: favored treatment for a favored few?

If you as an AMO member took an in-service lump sum distribution from the defined benefit AMO Pension Plan before this option was eliminated in 2009, you surely remember the hard and fast rule: if you take the lump-sum payout, you give up all claim to any other benefits from the AMO Pension Plan.

As it turns out, this rule may be a lot more flexible when applied to at least some AMO officials — in this specific case, Don Cree, a Tom Bethel loyalist and former AMO Great Lakes vice president kept on the AMO payroll for nearly four years as a “special assistant” to Bethel following Cree’s defeat for the vice president’s position by John Clemons in the AMO election of officers in 2010.

When Tom Bethel asked me earlier this year to write an AMO newspaper article announcing Cree’s retirement on May 31, I held to past practice in these cases and asked Tom for Cree’s work history so that I could list vessels he had worked on and the licensed positions he had held during his AMO career.

Instead of the familiar and simple chronological list of Cree’s jobs, Bethel sent me Cree’s history as an AMO Plans trustee and a 34-page document titled “Work History under the American Maritime Officers Pension Plan,” essentially an estimate of the monthly benefits Cree would receive in retirement. This document was dated May 16, 2014.

The numbers were startling, given that the defined benefit AMO Pension Plan was frozen in December 2009, and considering that Cree had reportedly taken a lump-sum pension a few years earlier. Cree was looking at a “gross monthly life annuity” of about $10,857 a month. This figure was derived from Cree’s earnings in 2007, 2008 and 2009 — his “high three.” The three-year earnings total was $450,982.81.

This AMO Pension Plan document included this disclaimer, among others: “Your actual benefit cannot be determined until you file a pension application.”

All of this is significant because, during the 2010 AMO election campaign, Tom Bethel’s slate identified Bethel, José Leonard, Joe Gremelsbacker and Don Cree as having “qualified for and received in-service lump-sum benefits from the AMO Pension Plan.”

This disclosure four years ago was included in the Bethel team’s political commentary on controversies arising from the state of the AMO Pension Plan and the status of lump-sum retirement benefit recipients in the then-developing AMO Defined Contribution Plan. If Cree hadn’t “qualified for and received” a lump-sum distribution at that point, neither he nor anyone else in the Bethel administration or in AMO Plans attempted to correct the Bethel campaign’s statement.

This was important in the context of Cree’s status in May 2014 as a former AMO Great Lakes vice president and his continued AMO employment in what amounted to a new but unofficial four-year term in office.

Cree’s retirement appears to have been enhanced by a lifetime monthly benefit of approximately $10,857 from the AMO Pension Plan — on top of the in-service lump-sum pension benefit distribution he had already received.

Factor in the balances in Cree’s AMO Defined Contribution, AMO 401(k) and AMO Pension Plan Money Purchase Benefit accounts, and you’ll agree — not bad for a guy voted out of AMO office four years ago.

And you’ll ask: if Don Cree received special consideration from the AMO Pension Plan, who else on the AMO payroll is in line for the same deal?

[QUOTE=Hitorque;143547]sorry respectmyauthority you are incorrect, pension is based on pension credits which is based on man days. 200 man days for a full pension credit 60 days can be vacation days; and vacation pay is based on days worked such as 20 vacation days for 30 days work and that pay could be based on a benefit wage that is different than your actual wage earned so there are many holes in your statement. This makes me question the validity of some of your other statements as well.

and although you may take offense to what I said I ask you not to vote for Bethel[/QUOTE]

Man days have always been in effect but the rate has always been based on the benefit rate. In other words, if you have say 300 man days at the 3rd Mate Sealift Inc benefit rate you can eat at McDonalds. If you have 300 days at the 3rd Mate Tote benefit rate you can afford to eat at the Ritz. Alright that might a little stretch. The pension is based on man days multiplied by benefit rate. Not one or the other. The benefit rate(vacation & pension) has been different than my daily woking rate on every ship I have work on with AMO for 26 years. Working with AMO for so long, I have paid attention to my paltry pension and how it is calculated.

Doell is NOT an attorney. Since his dad was a founding member of what is now AMO, he probably has a sincere interest in the welfare of the union, not just himself. And, plenty of examples throughout history of great administrators not having sailing experience. For example, Franklin Roosevelt (Ass’t Sec’y of The Navy), Winston Churchill or Samuel Pepys.

[QUOTE=FirthofForth2;143565]Doell is NOT an attorney. Since his dad was a founding member of what is now AMO, he probably has a sincere interest in the welfare of the union, not just himself. And, plenty of examples throughout history of great administrators not having sailing experience. For example, Franklin Roosevelt (Ass’t Sec’y of The Navy), Winston Churchill or Samuel Pepys.[/QUOTE]

Roosevelt and Churchill were also both career politicians using their positions as a stepping stone to something greater. What they were not were people representing a group of others trying to make a living. Their concern was with national self defense. Two very different matters entirely.

Didn’t make them bad administrators.

[QUOTE=FirthofForth2;143565]Doell is NOT an attorney. Since his dad was a founding member of what is now AMO, he probably has a sincere interest in the welfare of the union, not just himself. And, plenty of examples throughout history of great administrators not having sailing experience. For example, Franklin Roosevelt (Ass’t Sec’y of The Navy), Winston Churchill or Samuel Pepys.[/QUOTE]

So you are telling me that Doell’s experience with merchant sailors is that his daddy went to sea and he became a writer for the union? My daddy worked in the Sheet Metal Workers union for 35 years. I could write articles for the union paper. Does that make me qualified to be president of the his union? Spin in as you might, Doell has been a cubicle dweller all his life. He could listen to a million of his father’s sea stories but he really doesn’t understand what it is like to go to sea. I don’t think I can vote for him.

Even though Bethel while he went to sea, it was a short time and I really don’t think he gets the going to sea thing. His other shenanigans lead me to believe he isn’t a fit union president either. I don’t think I can vote for him.

I think more and more than I will vote for “none of the above” as far as president goes. Murdock will most likely get my vote for Sec/Tres.

The fact is Bethel has hired his live-in girlfriend, in a position for which she is apparently not qualified and has absolutely no experience, with a salary/benefit package worth in the upper six figures of your money. The allegations of other financial shenanigans, un-rebutted by Bethel, constitute an enormous mismangement of your money. These are matters that perhaps should weigh heavily in any deliberations. However, your expressed concerns are worthy and I respect them.

[QUOTE=RespectMyAuthority;143552]Man days have always been in effect but the rate has always been based on the benefit rate. In other words, if you have say 300 man days at the 3rd Mate Sealift Inc benefit rate you can eat at McDonalds. If you have 300 days at the 3rd Mate Tote benefit rate you can afford to eat at the Ritz. Alright that might a little stretch. The pension is based on man days multiplied by benefit rate. Not one or the other. The benefit rate(vacation & pension) has been different than my daily woking rate on every ship I have work on with AMO for 26 years. Working with AMO for so long, I have paid attention to my paltry pension and how it is calculated.[/QUOTE]

OK you and I now have it clear, we agree. Your terminology was misused is why I misunderstood. And it is not benefit rate it is benefit wage.

ALL AMO officials who took the buyout in 2009 prior to the DB plan being in rehabilitation received it at their wage in 2009 not like us pond scum that received it at the frozen levels. Page 13 of the summary plan description

Do not through your vote away by not casting a vote for AMO president. Cast it for Doell, he will do a top notch job because he is a professional. Maybe he can not change everything that is fouled up now but at least forward on will be better.

[QUOTE=Hitorque;143624]OK you and I now have it clear, we agree. Your terminology was misused is why I misunderstood. And it is not benefit rate it is benefit wage.

ALL AMO officials who took the buyout in 2009 prior to the DB plan being in rehabilitation received it at their wage in 2009 not like us pond scum that received it at the frozen levels. Page 13 of the summary plan description

Do not through your vote away by not casting a vote for AMO president. Cast it for Doell, he will do a top notch job because he is a professional. Maybe he can not change everything that is fouled up now but at least forward on will be better.[/QUOTE]

Sorry neither Doell or Bethel get my vote. Doell is a “professional” alright, a professional writer. Both are part of the old McKay days. Both are insiders that are part of the problem not the solution and neither will make any significant changes. My only hope is that enough people leave the presidents spot blank that it sends a message that we are not happy with our crappy choice. I hope Doell and Bethel get 20 votes total while the Sec/Tres spot gets a ton of votes.

[QUOTE=J Garfield;143550]We interrupt this program to bring you this from Doell’s site. Wow!!!

Don Cree’s ‘Pensionpalooza’: favored treatment for a favored few?

If you as an AMO member took an in-service lump sum distribution from the defined benefit AMO Pension Plan before this option was eliminated in 2009, you surely remember the hard and fast rule: if you take the lump-sum payout, you give up all claim to any other benefits from the AMO Pension Plan.

As it turns out, this rule may be a lot more flexible when applied to at least some AMO officials — in this specific case, Don Cree, a Tom Bethel loyalist and former AMO Great Lakes vice president kept on the AMO payroll for nearly four years as a “special assistant” to Bethel following Cree’s defeat for the vice president’s position by John Clemons in the AMO election of officers in 2010.

When Tom Bethel asked me earlier this year to write an AMO newspaper article announcing Cree’s retirement on May 31, I held to past practice in these cases and asked Tom for Cree’s work history so that I could list vessels he had worked on and the licensed positions he had held during his AMO career.

Instead of the familiar and simple chronological list of Cree’s jobs, Bethel sent me Cree’s history as an AMO Plans trustee and a 34-page document titled “Work History under the American Maritime Officers Pension Plan,” essentially an estimate of the monthly benefits Cree would receive in retirement. This document was dated May 16, 2014.

The numbers were startling, given that the defined benefit AMO Pension Plan was frozen in December 2009, and considering that Cree had reportedly taken a lump-sum pension a few years earlier. Cree was looking at a “gross monthly life annuity” of about $10,857 a month. This figure was derived from Cree’s earnings in 2007, 2008 and 2009 — his “high three.” The three-year earnings total was $450,982.81.

This AMO Pension Plan document included this disclaimer, among others: “Your actual benefit cannot be determined until you file a pension application.”

All of this is significant because, during the 2010 AMO election campaign, Tom Bethel’s slate identified Bethel, José Leonard, Joe Gremelsbacker and Don Cree as having “qualified for and received in-service lump-sum benefits from the AMO Pension Plan.”

This disclosure four years ago was included in the Bethel team’s political commentary on controversies arising from the state of the AMO Pension Plan and the status of lump-sum retirement benefit recipients in the then-developing AMO Defined Contribution Plan. If Cree hadn’t “qualified for and received” a lump-sum distribution at that point, neither he nor anyone else in the Bethel administration or in AMO Plans attempted to correct the Bethel campaign’s statement.

This was important in the context of Cree’s status in May 2014 as a former AMO Great Lakes vice president and his continued AMO employment in what amounted to a new but unofficial four-year term in office.

Cree’s retirement appears to have been enhanced by a lifetime monthly benefit of approximately $10,857 from the AMO Pension Plan — on top of the in-service lump-sum pension benefit distribution he had already received.

Factor in the balances in Cree’s AMO Defined Contribution, AMO 401(k) and AMO Pension Plan Money Purchase Benefit accounts, and you’ll agree — not bad for a guy voted out of AMO office four years ago.

And you’ll ask: if Don Cree received special consideration from the AMO Pension Plan, who else on the AMO payroll is in line for the same deal?[/QUOTE]

So a news flash!!! Apparently this whole story on Don Cree is 100% WRONG!!!