[QUOTE=Kougar018;129002]I recently received MARAD approval for all of my time with my drilling employer even though I sent in the application over a year late. I know that MARAD says your supposed to receive approval before you start the job but that’s not practical because they take months to respond. Marad routinely approves determination requests retroactively.[/QUOTE]
You should have been sailing navy or noaa before you even contemplated FOC drilling.
[QUOTE=Kougar018;129002]I recently received MARAD approval for all of my time with my drilling employer even though I sent in the application over a year late. I know that MARAD says your supposed to receive approval before you start the job but that’s not practical because they take months to respond. Marad routinely approves determination requests retroactively.[/QUOTE]
thank you so much for bolstering my position on non compliance by asking for a waiver after the fact.
Spare me your excuses of how you ended up drilling as a less than 5 yr kp grad by leaving an , I assume, approved shoreside job.
we already went over that before and it was not well received by this community.
So now you expect every MMR recipient who can’t find a job to go active duty?
Sounds good to me.
I did sail as a government mariner but couldn’t continue because of the schedule. Then I started sailing with a different company and the boat I was on got tied up. I found myself in need of a job and got hired shoreside in one that I received approval for after the fact. I wanted to sail again, but wanted a better schedule than normal shipping so when I got an offer from a drilling company I jumped on it. MARAD said in a recent letter that they’re approving drilling jobs, but grads are still required to submit paperwork for approval for any work that’s foreign flag (they know that all drilling rigs are foreign flagged). I think that MARAD is happy to approve determination requests for drilling jobs because it means that more grads are choosing to work on their license.
[QUOTE=New3M;129009]So now you expect every MMR recipient who can’t find a job to go active duty?[/QUOTE]
That’s not a bad idea. After all, what is all the marching and shouting about otherwise, and doesn’t KP claim service academy status? Bundle 'em up and send them to Bumfukistan.
I’m inclined to agree. If you didn’t want to make the commitment you shouldn’t have done the program. There’s too much money and resources at stake to just let it slide if they decide going to sea just isn’t for them.
[QUOTE=Johnny Canal;128987]Deja vu???[/QUOTE]
Johnny
Are you so bitter from being a BJ and having to play the drum at lunch muster that you have to come here and seek redemption. Are you upset about Burnside not making you CC or that you went to Mund’s whiskey and cigar parties and got nothing out of it. Or bitter about telling Hard that learning the log tables wasn’t needed and he laughed at you.
You talk about paying back but spending 2 weeks on the SS Wright counting keys and greasing sheaves so the CM can watch tv isn’t tax payer money well spent. Or how you do reserve duty on an ROS ship so you can go play golf and go drinking beers with your buddies is not tax payer money well spent.
How about instead of worrying about what everyone else does you should put your energy to better use, like running on the treadmill.
Yea great idea. Don’t most of us here already hate the fact that instead of working in the maritime industry, a large percentage of them accept commissions in the service because they actually want military careers instead and KP was the Academy that accepted them.
“Graduates breach their service obligation contract may be ordered to active duty in the U.S. armed forces. In lieu of being ordered to active duty, graduates may be required to repay the cost of the education provided by the Federal Government. The Maritime Administration’s Office of the Associate Administrator for Policy and International Trade will make a determination of whether a graduate has breached the service obligation. Such decisions may be appealed to the Maritime Administrator”
The way I see it you have a contract between two entities, the federal government and an individual mariner. In exchange for tuition the mariner must EITHER fulfill some employment and military service OR face a risk of the above in quotes. (Notice the word May) It is up to each entity to utilize their options under the contract in a way that best suits that entity’s needs. The individual mariner may find that selecting the risk of paying back the tuition or being forced into full time military service is their best option under the contract. This would be especially true if that risk is low.
I do not understand why you would be angry at a shipmate for selecting the options under a contract that worked best for that individual. Now as a taxpayer you may believe that the government is not electing to use its contractual options that are best for the nation, but that is a failure of the government not the individual mariner. If you feel that the governments best use of it powers under this contract is to crack down and force mariners into active military service or pay back the tuition in full, then direct your anger in that direction. Poisoning your working relationships will not change anything, except to make shipboard life less enjoyable and less safe.
Johnny
Why are you so angry? Are you still jaded after being a BJ?
By the way you should be more upset about the waste of money being spent on reserve duty. Counting keys and greasing sheaves on the SS Wright isn’t what I’d call money well spent
[QUOTE=Steamer;129019]That’s not a bad idea. After all, what is all the marching and shouting about otherwise, and doesn’t KP claim service academy status? Bundle 'em up and send them to Bumfukistan.[/QUOTE]
I went there on the Sue Lykes as a cadet. Place was so poor they didn’t even have hookers.
I hear alcohol is illegal there too.
[QUOTE=LI_Domer;129025] Don’t most of us here already hate the fact that instead of working in the maritime industry, a large percentage of them accept commissions in the service because they actually want military careers instead and KP was the Academy that accepted them.[/QUOTE]
I can’t speak for most of us but I think many of us believe that the problem with KP is that it doesn’t serve the American merchant marine or the mariner, it only serves MARAD and the alumni who use KP as the gateway to a career of taxpayer funded indolence, a sinecure that feeds what can only be described as one of DC’s more useless agencies.
[QUOTE=Steamer;129045]I can’t speak for most of us but I think many of us believe that the problem with KP is that it doesn’t serve the American merchant marine or the mariner, it only serves MARAD and the alumni who use KP as the gateway to a career of taxpayer funded indolence, a sinecure that feeds what can only be described as one of DC’s more useless agencies.[/QUOTE]
Well said Steamer!
[QUOTE=tugsailor;128949]This thread has gotten silly. US education is the biggest and longest running (over 200 years) social program that we’ve ever had. Its pure socialism. We provide a free K-12 public education for everyone. Every kid in America gets a full free ride for 12 years.
All colleges receive various forms of subsidies, tax deductible contributions, grants, and so on. All public colleges receive massive taxpayer support which makes tuition less than half of what it otherwise would be. These days, every kid, no matter how dumb, has a “right to go to college.”
Not one kid in any academy is actually paying his own way. The true cost of a year of education at any of the academies is at least $50,000. Yet, tuition is what $8,000 in-state and $16,000 out-of-state. Of course there is no tuition at KP. Every kid at every academy is getting subsidized by taxpayers, and getting the vast majority of his education for free. At most,he is only paying about 1/3rd of what it really costs the taxpayers. A lot of kids get additional Pell grants and other taxpayer subsidies. Student loans are another government subsidy. most kids could not get student loans and the interest rates would be much higher without the government The default rate is quite high, which government has to cover.
Joe taxpayer probably spends $250,000 to send little Billy through school K-12. Joe taxpayer then spends at least another $120,000 to send little Billy to a state academy (over $50,000 at KP). so little Billy’s complete 16 year education actually costs Joe taxpayer something approaching $400,000.
We have 10 times as much Navy as we need which spends 50 times more than it should. The last thing we need little Billy doing is joining the Navy.
So why would anyone in his right mind care whether little Billy works on a real merchant ship instead of on a drill rig after he graduates?
As long as little Billy pays his student loans, I certainly don’t care. I don’t care if little Billy becomes a piano player in a whorehouse, so long as he eventually starts paying taxes.[/QUOTE]
EXACTLY!
The fact is that all the academies are heavily subsidized by the federal and state governments (even more than a typical college). I have more of a problem with the fact that the vast majority of Federal Academy grads become defense contractors or some other form of employment on the government teet. Those who allegedly “abuse” the KP/SSO program are nevertheless just our version of defense contractors, but its certainly not unheard of to abuse something here in the U.S.
[QUOTE=Steamer;129045]I can’t speak for most of us but I think many of us believe that the problem with KP is that it doesn’t serve the American merchant marine or the mariner, it only serves MARAD and the alumni who use KP as the gateway to a career of taxpayer funded indolence, a sinecure that feeds what can only be described as one of DC’s more useless agencies.[/QUOTE]
This is true for every “service” academy. There are always a few good men, and a lot of bad.
This subsidized education debate is about like the health care debate.
If you add up all the government employees (city, school district, county, state, and federal), and all the government retirees, and all the military, and all the military retirees, and all the veterans, and all the people on Medicaid (welfare), and all the people on Medicare (everybody over 65) — who the hell is left?
Two thirds of the US population is already on socialized national healthcare. Then all the corporations get a big tax break for providing insurance to their employees. Those of us that have to buy our own insurance end up paying for that. All the deadbeats go to the emergency room because they have a right to care, even though they will never pay. So one way or another we all end up paying for that too.
Since we have to pay for all of that for everybody else, and if its so good for them, why isn’t socialized national healthcare also good for the rest us? We are paying for it.
[QUOTE=tugsailor;129070]This subsidized education debate is about like the health care debate.
If you add up all the government employees (city, school district, county, state, and federal), and all the government retirees, and all the military, and all the military retirees, and all the veterans, and all the people on Medicaid (welfare), and all the people on Medicare (everybody over 65) — who the hell is left?
Two thirds of the US population is already on socialized national healthcare. Then all the corporations get a big tax break for providing insurance to their employees. Those of us that have to buy our own insurance end up paying for that. All the deadbeats go to the emergency room because they have a right to care, even though they will never pay. So one way or another we all end up paying for that too.
Since we have to pay for all of that for everybody else, and if its so good for them, why isn’t socialized national healthcare also good for the rest us? We are paying for it.[/QUOTE]
Don’t get me started…
I sympathize with Johnny Canal… His point is valid. It’s like a shipmate bragging about cheating on his taxes … Maybe setting up a fictitious address to avoid State taxes or writing off something he shouldn’t have, or claiming unemployment benefits during vacations off the boat. But is it our place to call the IRS and start an investigation? I don’t think so. It might be cowardly but I just don’t want to go there.
Don’t forget usmmr program at state academies required cadets to apply for usnr commission. It didn’t mean one was offered to every grad. Apply in good faith and no commission granted, well then - obligation met. In full.
End.