More maritime academy freeloaders

Fraud and abuse hotline instead? Just saying. I agree with you Johnny.

I never relieved SIP payments, but I don’t really care about being in MMR/SSOP. It seems to me more hassle then it was worth. The guys in MMR have to go do all the ROTC things, which is a lot on top of the regimental stuff you already have to do, and all you get out of it is about 6k dollars a year or whatever it is. I’d say at SUNY about only 20% are in ROTC and probably 5% or less graduate SSOP especially now that they reconfigured it from the MMR program. Really it’s pennies in the grand scheme if things for SIP. KP is a whole other story. But any way the govt can support subsidising maritime education I’m all for.

Secondly I don’t see how working for a drilling company wouldn’t count towards their maritime industry employment.

[QUOTE=LI_Domer;128933]I never relieved SIP payments, but I don’t really care about being in MMR/SSOP. It seems to me more hassle then it was worth. The guys in MMR have to go do all the ROTC things, which is a lot on top of the regimental stuff you already have to do, and all you get out of it is about 6k dollars a year or whatever it is. I’d say at SUNY about only 20% are in ROTC and probably 5% or less graduate SSOP especially now that they reconfigured it from the MMR program. Really it’s pennies in the grand scheme if things for SIP. KP is a whole other story. But any way the govt can support subsidising maritime education I’m all for.

Secondly I don’t see how working for a drilling company wouldn’t count towards their maritime industry employment.[/QUOTE]

All but 2 or 3 MODUs are FOC so that precludes the parties germaine to this discussion from
working there w/o jumping through a lot of hoops looking for work before even asking MARAD for a waiver.

[QUOTE=Johnny Canal;128918]You said the rest was bullshit. Sounded like you don’t care. Taking the money and not complying is theft.

What can you do? Szabalta is only a phone call away.[/QUOTE]

I can see writing to MARAD or your congressman or having people sign a petition but dropping a dime on a shipmate doesn’t seem like the way to go. What would be the goal? To create legal difficulties or to force them to quit their jobs?

[QUOTE=Kennebec Captain;128939]I can see writing to MARAD or your congressman or having people sign a petition but dropping a dime on a shipmate doesn’t seem like the way to go. What would be the goal? To create legal difficulties or to force them to quit their jobs?[/QUOTE]

I expect them to do the right thing without being told.
If they won’t, then I expect MARAD to do the rest.

People get arrested, tried, and convicted everyday in this country for embezzling, fraud, theft, etc. Are these kids any different?

And no, no dime drooping going on.

Why does it really matter? They are the ones that have to look at themselves in the mirror everyday. My conscience is clear.

This thread has gotten silly. US education is the biggest and longest running (over 200 years) social program that we’ve ever had. Its pure socialism. We provide a free K-12 public education for everyone. Every kid in America gets a full free ride for 12 years.

All colleges receive various forms of subsidies, tax deductible contributions, grants, and so on. All public colleges receive massive taxpayer support which makes tuition less than half of what it otherwise would be. These days, every kid, no matter how dumb, has a “right to go to college.”

Not one kid in any academy is actually paying his own way. The true cost of a year of education at any of the academies is at least $50,000. Yet, tuition is what $8,000 in-state and $16,000 out-of-state. Of course there is no tuition at KP. Every kid at every academy is getting subsidized by taxpayers, and getting the vast majority of his education for free. At most,he is only paying about 1/3rd of what it really costs the taxpayers. A lot of kids get additional Pell grants and other taxpayer subsidies. Student loans are another government subsidy. most kids could not get student loans and the interest rates would be much higher without the government The default rate is quite high, which government has to cover.

Joe taxpayer probably spends $250,000 to send little Billy through school K-12. Joe taxpayer then spends at least another $120,000 to send little Billy to a state academy (over $50,000 at KP). so little Billy’s complete 16 year education actually costs Joe taxpayer something approaching $400,000.

We have 10 times as much Navy as we need which spends 50 times more than it should. The last thing we need little Billy doing is joining the Navy.

So why would anyone in his right mind care whether little Billy works on a real merchant ship instead of on a drill rig after he graduates?

As long as little Billy pays his student loans, I certainly don’t care. I don’t care if little Billy becomes a piano player in a whorehouse, so long as he eventually starts paying taxes.

Seems like a lot of you guys here have an axe to grind of some sort. I graduated from a state academy, you can guess which. I’m sure theres many good KP’ers out there, but all I’v worked with have either been useless as hell, or proud that they’ve been able to dodge their responsibilities. With only ONE exception. I paid for my state education through working and busting my ass to get scholarships. Before you jump me ass for a subsidized education, jump obamacare. Jump the free ride for the paint locker inventoriers that are KP grads. I started my career on the water at 13, guys like me shouldnt be bastardized here. I work hard and move up quick and the few places I’ve worked. Don’t let anyone from KP get away with dodging their responsibilities. I’ve called them out in front of the the other officers and will continue to do so. When they brag about not going to their duty, ask them for a refund. Demand it. Shame them. If you’re a grad, tell them to f$%k off when they get defensive. You paid, they didn’t, DON’T, should be, and are proud of it.

[QUOTE=MASSAILOR;128968]Seems like a lot of you guys here have an axe to grind of some sort. I graduated from a state academy, you can guess which. I’m sure theres many good KP’ers out there, but all I’v worked with have either been useless as hell, or proud that they’ve been able to dodge their responsibilities. With only ONE exception. I paid for my state education through working and busting my ass to get scholarships. Before you jump me ass for a subsidized education, jump obamacare. Jump the free ride for the paint locker inventoriers that are KP grads. I started my career on the water at 13, guys like me shouldnt be bastardized here. I work hard and move up quick and the few places I’ve worked. Don’t let anyone from KP get away with dodging their responsibilities. I’ve called them out in front of the the other officers and will continue to do so. When they brag about not going to their duty, ask them for a refund. Demand it. Shame them. If you’re a grad, tell them to f$%k off when they get defensive. You paid, they didn’t, DON’T, should be, and are proud of it.[/QUOTE]

While I agree with some of what you sre saying, the point was all ‘responsibility dodgers’ from ALL schools being held responsible. Had I not started my current job just 3 weeks ago, I would tell this guy I am working with now to f*&k off. Anybody within the last 30yrs who took the money at a state school and tells you they had no obligation to sail is either a fool or a liar.

BUT thank you for calling out my piece of shit alumni when it is appropriate. Just make sure you spread that love to all who deserve it.

The point is: We ALL got a massively subsidized education. All the way from kindergarten on up.

It a fact that conflict among crew reduces crew effectiveness including during emergencies. Pointing out to your fellow officers that you think they are worthless freeloaders is also bound to make life at work unpleasant and stressful.

Do you guys that are on a campaign to reform this situation by going after your shipmates think that the fact you are reducing crew effectiveness and adding to the stress level is an issue?

[QUOTE=Kennebec Captain;128983]It a fact that conflict among crew reduces crew effectiveness including during emergencies. Pointing out to your fellow officers that you think they are worthless freeloaders is also bound to make life at work unpleasant and stressful.

Do you guys that are on a campaign to reform this situation by going after your shipmates think that the fact you are reducing crew effectiveness and adding to the stress level is an issue?[/QUOTE]

While I am on the ship, the ship comes first, period. My personal life is a distant second, as well as any personal issues I may have with any of my shipmates.

But don’t you think that working with someone for whom you have no respect because they are a worthless freeloader is going to reduce my effectiveness and add to my stress level until as such time that I can depart the vessel or the offending party can?

which came first, the chicken or the egg? I’d rather sail with a thoughtless jerk who paid his dues than a person of opposite character who didn’t.

[QUOTE=Johnny Canal;128985]While I am on the ship, the ship comes first, period. My personal life is a distant second, as well as any personal issues I may have with any of my shipmates.

But don’t you think that working with someone for whom you have no respect because they are a worthless freeloader is going to reduce my effectiveness and add to my stress level until as such time that I can depart the vessel or the offending party can?

which came first, the chicken or the egg? I’d rather sail with a thoughtless jerk who paid his dues than a person of opposite character who didn’t.[/QUOTE]

My job is safe and efficient operation of the vessel. Everything else is bullshit.

Deja vu???

You’re kidding right? First, you expect these kids to turn down a $100k job because of some waiver? And second, you think MARAD has a fucking clue as to who is even in the program, never mind where they actually work?

A few years ago all people had to do to stay in the program was go online and check in at some muster once a year.

I’m not in the program but my understanding was that they had to work in the maritime field in a very broad sense - as long as you could argue that whatever you did had to do with the industry, you were good to go.

I assume your problem is that they’re on foreign flag drill ships and not working in the US fleet. What about the people that work for foreign cruiselines that are in MMR? A guy I went to school with (and is in MMR) has sailed with Celebrity since we graduated and is now a staff captain there. I take it you don’t like that either?

Who gives a fig?

A few people here need to sign up for Anger Management 101, and go get a life.

      • Updated - - -

[QUOTE=New3M;128992]You’re kidding right? First, you expect these kids to turn down a $100k job because of some waiver? And second, you think MARAD has a fucking clue as to who is even in the program, never mind where they actually work?A few years ago all people had to do to stay in the program was go online and check in at some muster once a year. I’m not in the program but my understanding was that they had to work in the maritime field in a very broad sense - as long as you could argue that whatever you did had to do with the industry, you were good to go.I assume your problem is that they’re on foreign flag drill ships and not working in the US fleet. What about the people that work for foreign cruiselines that are in MMR? A guy I went to school with (and is in MMR) has sailed with Celebrity since we graduated and is now a staff captain there. I take it you don’t like that either?[/QUOTE]

https://webapps.marad.dot.gov/MSCS/docs/Your%20Service%20Obligation%20Pamphlet%202010.pdf

your understanding was wrong. Take 3-5 mins out of your busy day and read this, especially section V. No problem with your friend if he played by the rules.

Do you know for a fact that these people you work with haven’t applied for a waiver? I have a feeling that if they do apply there isn’t a whole lot of effort required to get one approved.

[QUOTE=New3M;129000]Do you know for a fact that these people you work with haven’t applied for a waiver? I have a feeling that if they do apply there isn’t a whole lot of effort required to get one approved.[/QUOTE]

yes I do, and no they didnt. And you can’t request one after the fact.

One of them even quit MSC to go drilling.

If none of this really matters, then I say we just start paying all of
KP and SSOP 100k a year to attend, on top of everything else, let them work wherever they want doing what they want, skate on usnr duties, and give them personal fed withholding tax exempt status.

And just for the hell of it we will give them master and chief licenses when they graduate. Yipee!!!

I wonder if anyone would give a ‘FIG’ about that.

I recently received MARAD approval for all of my time with my drilling employer even though I sent in the application over a year late. I know that MARAD says your supposed to receive approval before you start the job but that’s not practical because they take months to respond. Marad routinely approves determination requests retroactively.