For the above point, and not to single you out, but they don’t join the EU to protect against a Russia, that’s NATO. While the EU did adopt a mutual defense clause in 2009, it doesn’t call for military support, it can be non military and recognizes the primacy of NATO mutual defense for members of NATO. Only Croatia has joined EU since it was adopted and they joined NATO before that. So not so much on the ‘many’.
Too many different cultures? The world is a community, no one lives alone and if people come together for regional pooling for mutual advantage, despite apparent differences—like Italians and bratwurst—they are smoothed by the fact that the materials that make bratwurst still have appeal in Italy. Dairy products, beef products, produce—makes sense to relax their sale regionally, and form a division of manufactures and free trade internally and trading as a block externally. People arguing about the shortfalls of an EU are arguing against US style federalism. People who argue the differences in culture or language prevent mutual commerce and common government should realize that everyone eats, buys, sells, works and the barrier of language or ‘culture’ is a hobgoblin. But if a member of the UK chooses to make it so, then one hopes they would quickly release Northern Ireland to become part of Ireland, and allow Wales and Scotland to enjoy the sovereignty the UK would demand of EU.
UK has done well in the EU. Here’s data—which is conspicuously absent in many people’s assertions.
Found the Amal. 27 year old ropax/cargo. Presently owned and registered in Cyprus and managed by a Jordanian company (AB Marine)
Don’t see your name anywhere in Owner or Manager company.(??)
What is you involvment?
James
Have you ever watched the Eurovision song contest.
The way people vote tells more about Europe than any books or graphs.
Anyway, lets accept that we have a different opinion. What matters now is getting on with it. And I fear that the attitude of the likes of Mr Le Carr will do the country no good at all.
If that is your theory of politics, song contests over books then I am content to have a different opinion. But you should consider that you’re all watching the same song contest.
And why would a Brit fail to use the proper spelling of British author John Le Carré?
From my knowledge of the EU it seems most problems can be traced to the ECB, European Common Bank. Their policies dictate how countries can operate. The ECB directors are not elected but appointed. Having different countries form a union is a good idea. But having their financial future determined by people they can’t vote for is not a good idea. An example is Greece. Long a corrupt country and defaulting on debt. The ECB imposed conditions on the average citizens of Greece that had zero to do with the endemic corruption but none the less put them in poverty. Why? Bond holders of banks in the EU wanted to be paid after investing in a known corrupt government. They wanted a bailout. Until the citizens of the EU can gain some say so over the ECB there will be discontent. Its kinda like the citizens of the USA not having any say over the SEC, the FED etc. At the end of the day all crimes can be traced to…who benefits from the money and it is ALWAYS about the money
I will also add that the ECB loves immigrants. They say it boosts the labor force. Yep, sure does but at what cost and who benefits? To be clear I believe all societies benefit from an exchange of citizens, cultures and ideas. But, the employment of citizens from other countries should not result in them displacing native born citizens or reducing wages.
Of course the UK has done great since the '60. Many countries that haven’t been a part of the EU have done great too. The prosperity of the UK has been around a lot longer than the EU. Do you think the UK would have turned into some African-type shithole if it weren’t for the EU? Get real, that chart doesn’t really mean anything.
I am very real and the chart is real. I know it’s your habit to dismiss data instead of provide any, but the EU in current form in 1993 is a significant inflection on that chart, UK doing OK before and better than the Euro area over a longer term after. There is no reason not to believe there is a connection. And no one said UK wouldn’t survive if they didn’t join—they wanted to, applied three times to join the European Communities. The only people who want to upset the order are people who think they will profit more from the new order.
Has anyone ever heard of inflation? Ever heard the expression “a rising tide lifts all boats.”
NATO is a military alliance. It only protects against blatant military aggression. NATO military protection relies upon the half-hearted and deliberately underfunded promises of European NATO countries, and the fully funded military of the United States. Without the US, NATO would be an empty shell. Are US taxpayers going to continue to pay for most of Europe’s defense forever? I sure hope not.
Do the Baltics and other Eastern European countries believe that anyone in NATO, other than the US would come to their defense effectively? I doubt it. They are fools if they do.
For a poor Eastern European country, being member of the EU, with the Euro as the currency, and hundreds of thousands it’s citizens living, working, (and perhaps voting) in Western Europe (and sending a lot of money back home), is the best economic, electoral, (and military) defense against Russian aggression.
How hard is it to believe that a country like France (which only has military expertise in early surrender) would be more like to honor its NATO commitments to an Eastern country that is also an EU member, on the Euro, with a hundred thousand of its citizens living in France, and which owes French banks and the EU billions of Euros?
You are right, in a real war, the NATO (hence, the USA) would decide of the outcome.
But not right too; up to a real war, there is economic and other litigation before. Who would willingly ‘fight’ against a 500 million economic giant?
As for the Italy<>Germany ‘Bratwurst’:
The veal ‘Bratwurst’ of northern Germany is nearly tasteless, and not liked in Italy.
The pork ‘Bratwurst’ has the same usage in Italy (there, called a ‘salsiccia’) and in southern Germany. It is loved in both regions…
Well, I looked at charts of gdp per capita for Norway, the US & the EU to post & reply to you but then I thought, “What’s the point?”. Although the charts & evidence are as real as yours & demonstrates countries can do just fine without the EU, you’re obvious a globalists. As I mentioned about your ilk in post #39 of this thread, you anti-Brexit’er never address the legitimate complaints the majority that wanted to leave. Globalists don’t care about democracy individuals & individual nations. Why shouldn’t individual citizens get a vote on individual leaders of the EU? That’s a no brainer IMO.
Disingenuous as ever. I imagine it is very annoying to have to sift thru data to support a point you clearly never consulted data to develop.
Yeah! They just want an individual citizen vote in leadership of their countries, just like how the Brits get to individually vote on UK Prime Minister! They don’t by the way, so you know for the next time you pretend to have your thumb on the pulse of the Brits.
We are all globalists. If you aren’t then refuse to buy anything not manufactured from any part or assembled by anyone not from your home country. The “globalists” cannot survive without customers. Step one…discard your cell phone and computer.
dumping immigrants into your country is just a quick and dirty GDP increase as you have to pay them, house them and feed them.
It continually reduces your productivity and hence the wealth creation of a country
People seem to forget that many post WWII immigrants had skills but these days??
This statement is completely false. It is conspiracy theory foisted by Michel Chossudovsky, whose organization, Centre for Research on Globalization, is a notorious purveyor of misinformation: 9/11 conspiracies, anti-vaxxers, holocaust deniers, the works:
From the Wikipedia link: …The Atlantic Council’s Digital Forensic Research Lab described it as "pro-Putin and anti-NATO. The Jewish Tribune described the Centre as being "rife with anti-Jewish conspiracy theory and Holocaust denial…
These guys are lower than the people who deny the Apollo moon landings–those losers are just crying for attention. Chossudovsky and his gang actively campaign to sow doubt in our institutions and our allies.
When people of this ilk start posting the nonsense here, watch out. As mariners we may have sharp disagreements between ourselves, but when outright misinformation is being foisted about something as important as ship sinkings, should we tolerate it?
What will happen if the UK leave w/o a deal?
Will the UK breaks up, with N.I. joining the the Republic and Scotland get independence? Not a far fetched scenario at this time.
Will England automatically inherit UK’s permanent seat at the Security Council?
(Like Russia did at the breakup of the Soviet Union)
Will England also continue to be member of NATO, WTO etc. and be leader of the Commonwealth?
What about the British Overseas Territories, will they become English O.T., become independent nations, or being absorbed by others?
A satirical cartoon suggested that all other European nations would eventually be member of EU, with England and Wales marked as; “US Colonies”.(Sorry, can’t find it again)
