Inland Master unlimited Tonnage

So, looking into the requirements for the Unlimited Master Inland it says 360 days of service as mate…service on Near Coastal Waters does not apply. Anybody know why service on Near Coastal waters wouldn’t apply? Doesn’t Near Coastal supersede Inland? Am I missing something? :confused:

While this has been discussed on here a lot I’ll be nice and assume it just doesn’t show up on searches.

From the Marine Safety Manual, Vol. III
Part A, chapter 10, section C, paragraph 3

“Mariners holding a license as Master 1600 GT Oceans or Near Coastal may apply for a Master Any GT Inland license utilizing 46 CFR 10.435. A tonnage limitation will be placed on the Inland license as per 46 CFR 10.402(b) and ©. Mariners may remove the tonnage limitation on the Inland license by serving one year on vessels over 1600 GT.”

[QUOTE=Michojay;166219]Well I guess I’m not as good with the search function as I’d thought I was. Thank you for clearing that up for me!��[/QUOTE]

I didn’t search it to see if it comes up but I know “Master Unlimited Inland” has been discussed repeatedly.

You didn’t say why you are asking so I assumed it’s so you can backdoor your way to 2M Unlimited Oceans, hence the quote I provided. If that is not why you are asking, I apologize.

Are you looking for Master Inland, or Master Great Lakes & Inland?

[QUOTE=Michojay;163700]So, looking into the requirements for the Unlimited Master Inland it says 360 days of service as mate…[B]service on Near Coastal Waters does not apply.[/B][/QUOTE]

I’m not sure what version of the CFR you’re looking at but I see no such wording.

46 CFR 11.435 - Requirements for master of inland self-propelled vessels of unlimited tonnage.

(a) The minimum service required to qualify an applicant for an endorsement as master of self-propelled vessels of unlimited tonnage on inland waters, excluding the Great Lakes is—

(1) One year of service as first-class pilot (of other than canal and small lakes routes) or mate of Great Lakes or inland self-propelled vessels of 1,600 GRT or more while holding a license or MMC endorsement as mate inland or first-class pilot of Great Lakes and inland self-propelled vessels of unlimited tonnage; or

(2) Two years of service performing bridge watchkeeping duties under the supervision of the master or a qualified officer while holding a mate/first-class pilot license or MMC endorsement.

[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;166225]I’m not sure what version of the CFR you’re looking at but I see no such wording…[/QUOTE]

See 46 CFR 11.431.

Why?

[QUOTE=jdcavo;166231]See 46 CFR 11.431.[/QUOTE]

11.431 Tonnage requirements for Great Lakes and inland endorsements for vessels of 1,600 GRT or more.
(a) All required experience for Great Lakes and inland unlimited endorsements must be obtained on vessels of 100 GRT or more. At least one-half of the required experience must be obtained on vessels of 1,600 GRT or more.
(b) Tonnage limitations may be imposed on these endorsements in accordance with §11.402(b) and © of this subpart.

I had a mate awhile ago who has Mate of Towing, NC; AB Unlimited; and Master Inland AGT (with no tonnage restriction). All of his seatime is on tugs under 200 GRT. I asked him how he got Master Inland with no tonnage restriction. He had no idea.

[QUOTE=tugsailor;166234]I had a mate awhile ago who has Mate of Towing, NC; AB Unlimited; and Master Inland AGT (with no tonnage restriction). All of his seatime is on tugs under 200 GRT. I asked him how he got Master Inland with no tonnage restriction. He had no idea.[/QUOTE]

Prior to centralization of NMC, some RECs were not applying the tonnage limitation provisions in the CFR.

[QUOTE=jdcavo;166238]Prior to centralization of NMC, some RECs were not applying the tonnage limitation provisions in the CFR.[/QUOTE]

According to the Marine Safety Manual it takes “one year of service on vessels over 1600 tons” to remove the tonnage limitation but it does not specify in what capacity. Can the time be as Mate?

From the Marine Safety Manual, Vol. III
Part A, chapter 10, section C, paragraph 3

“Mariners holding a license as Master 1600 GT Oceans or Near Coastal may apply for a Master Any GT Inland license utilizing 46 CFR 10.435. A tonnage limitation will be placed on the Inland license as per 46 CFR 10.402(b) and ©. [B]Mariners may remove the tonnage limitation on the Inland license by serving one year on vessels over 1600 GT[/B].”

It sounds to me like one year as OS over 1600 should do it.

From the Marine Safety Manual, Vol. III
Part A, chapter 10, section C, paragraph 3

“Mariners holding a license as Master 1600 GT Oceans or Near Coastal may apply for a Master Any GT Inland license utilizing 46 CFR 10.435. A tonnage limitation will be placed on the Inland license as per 46 CFR 10.402(b) and ©. Mariners may remove the tonnage limitation on the Inland license by serving one year on vessels over 1600 GT.”

Is this still available to do this route to Master AGT Inland? Does the Marine Safety Manual supersede the CFR and NMC Checklist. I have to send in my HELM Cert and would like to apply to test for AGT Inland Master, has anyone done this route?

after a discussion with someone at my REC a while ago, changes in the CFR’s can/do supersede the marine safety manual when applicable.

“It’s the only reason I applied for master agt inland. I applied for and was approved for both (master AGT inland and 2nd Mate ) but I only needed to test for master inland.
Last edited by Capt. Phoenix; December 12th, 2012 at 09:44 AM.”

Found this in searching the topic, Anyone else applied for Master AGT and Second Mate on the same application? And didnt have to test for 2nd mate?

I currently hold Master 1600GRT / 3000GT Oceans, plan to apply next week just want to have my information straight before I apply to insure im not wasting time.

Thanks,

[QUOTE=coldcreepin;166378]
Found this in searching the topic, Anyone else applied for Master AGT and Second Mate on the same application? And didnt have to test for 2nd mate?

I currently hold Master 1600GRT / 3000GT Oceans, plan to apply next week just want to have my information straight before I apply to insure im not wasting time.

Thanks,[/QUOTE]

I think it Should depend whether or not you took the 500/1600/3rd mate exams in the last decade or so? logic being 2nd mate is just a sea-time upgrade from 3rd, IIRC.

[QUOTE=coldcreepin;166378]“It’s the only reason I applied for master agt inland. I applied for and was approved for both (master AGT inland and 2nd Mate ) but I only needed to test for master inland.
Last edited by Capt. Phoenix; December 12th, 2012 at 09:44 AM.”

Found this in searching the topic, Anyone else applied for Master AGT and Second Mate on the same application? And didnt have to test for 2nd mate?

I currently hold Master 1600GRT / 3000GT Oceans, plan to apply next week just want to have my information straight before I apply to insure im not wasting time.

Thanks,[/QUOTE]

So it is possible to apply for Master Inland and 2nd Mate at the same time ?

Its not required that you hold Master Inland before applying for 2nd Mate ?

Yes I understand the path from 3rd mate to 2nd mate. Im interested in 1600 Master Oceans to AGT Inland Master to 2nd Mate Oceans pathway.

I only hold Master 1600 grt Oceans. I want to apply for AGT Inland Master then cross over to 2nd mate Near Oceans. I know I would have to test all modules for AGT and take mates test after. Interested in doing it on one application. Dont want to confuse NMC more than normal.

I don’t see why not, none of the CFRs in question have changed.

[QUOTE=coldcreepin;166355]Does the Marine Safety Manual supersede the CFR and NMC Checklist.[/QUOTE]

The Marine Safety Manual doesn’t supersede anything, it just clarifies.

      • Updated - - -

[QUOTE=tugsailor;166390]So it is possible to apply for Master Inland and 2nd Mate at the same time ?

Its not required that you hold Master Inland before applying for 2nd Mate ?[/QUOTE]

No it is not required to hold the Master Inland first and reapply, but they won’t issue the 2nd Mate until you pass the tests for Master Inland. Kind of like how one can apply for their 2M upgrade from 3M and put Master 1600 on the same application.

      • Updated - - -

[QUOTE=coldcreepin;166378]Anyone else applied for Master AGT and Second Mate on the same application? And didnt have to test for 2nd mate?[/QUOTE]

If you already passed the modern 2nd Mate Unlimited exams you won’t need to take them again. If you haven’t ever taken the mate exams or took them before 2002 you will need to take the 2M Unlimited exams as well. Two or three of the modules (I think of the Master Inland exams) get nixed because they are the same topic but lower level of the other.

So instead of taking 5 modules for Master AGT plus 6 modules for 2M NC (= 11) you only have to take 8 or 9 modules combined.

I am a tugboat guy holding Master 1600 and looking to “upgrade” to Master Inland AGT (restricted to 2000 GRT) and 2nd Mate AGT (restricted to 2000 tons). I have no seatime over 1600 tons. I know that I will have to take the full exams for both licenses and that’s fine by me.

Which license consultants have guys used to successfully do this same thing?

I’m still wondering how sea time can be documented as first class pilot for master AGT inland? Do they mean FCP on a laker, or pilot piloting their own tug barge, or in service of a ship? How many hours for a day to count?

[QUOTE=z-drive;166741]I’m still wondering how sea time can be documented as first class pilot for master AGT inland? Do they mean FCP on a laker, or pilot piloting their own tug barge, or in service of a ship? How many hours for a day to count?[/QUOTE]

I suspect that most people count every day of their hitch times 1.5, if they “act as pilot” at anytime during the hitch. Most companies seem to have no mechanism or patients for parcing out pilotage. I have had more trouble documenting pilotage trips on company letterhead than anything else.