[QUOTE=Michojay;166667]Nope, not trying to backdoor my way into anything. Ialready hold a 3rd mate unlimited, a little more time and the 2nd mate is just an application away. I was reading the requirements from the checklist for unlimited master.[/QUOTE]
The quote I gave still applies, just wait until you upgrade to 2M and 1600 ton Master.
[QUOTE=tugsailor;166738]I am a tugboat guy holding Master 1600 and looking to “upgrade” to Master Inland AGT (restricted to 2000 GRT) and 2nd Mate AGT (restricted to 2000 tons). I have no seatime over 1600 tons. I know that I will have to take the full exams for both licenses and that’s fine by me.
Which license consultants have guys used to successfully do this same thing?[/QUOTE]
I didn’t use a license consultant. If you know the Marine Safety Manual citation there is no need for one. It also might be helpful to know the USCG policy letter that says the minimum tonnage limits are 2,000 GRT and 4,000 GT.
[QUOTE=z-drive;166741]I’m still wondering how sea time can be documented as first class pilot for master AGT inland? Do they mean FCP on a laker, or pilot piloting their own tug barge, or in service of a ship? How many hours for a day to count?[/QUOTE]
I’m not sure how to classify a “day” of pilotage but the CFR specifically says “first class pilotage” which means you need to have first class pilotage for that route. Running a tug shouldn’t qualify as that unless you also have full first class pilotage for the route you’re on.
yes, days where one has first class pilotage and operates on that route. Issue is you’re often transiting an area in 45-90 minutes.
When I applied I was told the Marine Safety Manual had change and that was no longer allowed. I pointed out I had just downloaded the most current MSM and then read to the evaluator the specific passage. Know your citation, for me it made the difference. I was applying to upgrade my Master from 500 to 1600 but she went ahead and gave me 2nd Mate 2000grt. I am studying for Master Inland 200 GRT now. Anyone have advice on how they studied for Inland Master AGT?
[QUOTE=Tcaptain;173356]Anyone have advice on how they studied for Inland Master AGT?[/QUOTE]
I reviewed some deck gen for less than an hour from a 5 year old Murphy book then just tested and winged it. It’s a stupidly easy test. (I’m a bit better than average at memory retention though so you may need a little more brushing up. If your actively studying for something else, you’ll have no problem.)
The hardest part is the rules exam.
[QUOTE=Michojay;166667]Nope, not trying to backdoor my way into anything. Ialready hold a 3rd mate unlimited, a little more time and the 2nd mate is just an application away. I was reading the requirements from the checklist for unlimited master. [B]Sorry if I offended you. From now on I will just read the CFRs instead of posting a question in the “professional mariners forum”. This place used to be a good source of information and helpful mariners, now everybody just waits to eat your lunch.[/B][/QUOTE]
I just realized I never replied to this:
Dude, why so butt-hurt?
I have been prepping with the UpgradeU app for iPad but my scores seem low, too low. Does anyone have experience with this app?
[QUOTE=Tcaptain;173557]I have been prepping with the UpgradeU app for iPad but my scores seem low, too low. Does anyone have experience with this app?[/QUOTE]<br>
<br><br>Upgrade U is a good study aid. The USCG has some new questions. Maybe that’s the problem. <br>
[QUOTE=Tcaptain;173356]When I applied I was told the Marine Safety Manual had change and that was no longer allowed. I pointed out I had just downloaded the most current MSM and then read to the evaluator the specific passage… [/QUOTE]
The relevant parts of the “most recent” MSM are from 1999. The relevant regulations were chnaged effective March 24, 2014. Policy can supercede or modify regulations.
Mr. Cavo The date on page 3 was 30 July 2014, published after the relevant changes made in March. http://www.uscg.mil/directives/cim/16000-16999/CIM_16000_8B.pdf
[QUOTE=Tcaptain;173656]Mr. Cavo The date on page 3 was 30 July 2014, published after the relevant changes made in March. http://www.uscg.mil/directives/cim/16000-16999/CIM_16000_8B.pdf[/QUOTE]
My office “owns” the licesning part of the MSM, I think I’d know if we revised it a year ago. Page 3 of the revised manual is the memo publishing the changes to the chapters on manning and inspection. The chapters on licenisng are from 1999 and were not changed. Read section 4 of that memo on page 3, it explains what was chnaged. The reference to STCW 2010 is chnaging the manning section to include manning requirements for STCW endorsed mariners for vessels subject to STCW.
Look at Chapter 9 of that Volume of the MSM. It’s titled “STCW” and it is a single page that says “To be developed.” I think that if we were revising the MSM to includse the rulemaking for STCW 2010, we might have had a thing or two to add to that chapter. You want more examples? Try to find any mention of a TWIC, the MMC, or towing vessel licenses (other than OUTV). Or, even more conspicuously absent, any mention of the National Maritime Center having any role in the evaluation of applications and issuing of MMCs.
[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;166160]While this has been discussed on here a lot I’ll be nice and assume it just doesn’t show up on searches.
From the Marine Safety Manual, Vol. III
Part A, chapter 10, section C, paragraph 3
“Mariners holding a license as Master 1600 GT Oceans or Near Coastal may apply for a Master Any GT Inland license utilizing 46 CFR 10.435. A tonnage limitation will be placed on the Inland license as per 46 CFR 10.402(b) and ©. Mariners may remove the tonnage limitation on the Inland license by serving one year on vessels over 1600 GT.”[/QUOTE]
Please post a link to 46 CFR 10.435.
I have no CFRs and limited access to Internet. Oddly, this seems to be difficult to pull up.
[QUOTE=tugsailor;177270]Please post a link to 46 CFR 10.435[/QUOTE]
The old 46 CFR 10 is now 46 CFR 11.
§11.435 Requirements for master of inland self-propelled vessels of unlimited tonnage.
(a) The minimum service required to qualify an applicant for an endorsement as master of self-propelled vessels of unlimited tonnage on inland waters, excluding the Great Lakes is—
(1) One year of service as first-class pilot (of other than canal and small lakes routes) or mate of Great Lakes or inland self-propelled vessels of 1,600 GRT or more while holding a license or MMC endorsement as mate inland or first-class pilot of Great Lakes and inland self-propelled vessels of unlimited tonnage; or
(2) [B]Two years of service performing bridge watchkeeping duties under the supervision of the master or a qualified officer while holding a mate/first-class pilot license or MMC endorsement[/B].
I assume the relevant part is 46 CFR 11.435 (a) 2, highlighted above.
I would think two years standing your own watch at (chief) mate while holding a first class pilot endorsement would count…no? Why the need to be supervised if you don’t need to be?
[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;177277]The old 46 CFR 10 is now 46 CFR 11.
§11.435 Requirements for master of inland self-propelled vessels of unlimited tonnage.
(a) The minimum service required to qualify an applicant for an endorsement as master of self-propelled vessels of unlimited tonnage on inland waters, excluding the Great Lakes is—
(1) One year of service as first-class pilot (of other than canal and small lakes routes) or mate of Great Lakes or inland self-propelled vessels of 1,600 GRT or more while holding a license or MMC endorsement as mate inland or first-class pilot of Great Lakes and inland self-propelled vessels of unlimited tonnage; or
(2) [B]Two years of service performing bridge watchkeeping duties under the supervision of the master or a qualified officer while holding a mate/first-class pilot license or MMC endorsement[/B].
I assume the relevant part is 46 CFR 11.435 (a) 2, highlighted above.[/QUOTE]
Thanks. No wonder I could not find the old avatar section.
None of that is really relevant to me. I’m just interested in the Marine Safety Manual provision that a holder of Master 1600 Oceans is entitled to sit the exam for Master Inland AGT with a tonnage limit of at least 2000 tons, just by asking.
[QUOTE=z-drive;177280]I would think two years standing your own watch at (chief) mate while holding a first class pilot endorsement would count…no? Why the need to be supervised if you don’t need to be?[/QUOTE]
I believe the / means that you need a mate OR first class pilot, not both.
Also, the higher ups at NMC appear to agree with you that standing your own watch qualifies, that’s why they gave the guidance in the MSM that they did.
(Technically the mates on any vessel are performing watchkeeping duties under the supervision of the master anyway…)
that’s what I would think. I Should be close to having that. I could look it up but how many modules if you have 1,600 ocean master?
[QUOTE=z-drive;177302]that’s what I would think. I Should be close to having that. I could look it up but how many modules if you have 1,600 ocean master?[/QUOTE]
You have to take the whole Master Unlimited Inland exam but it’s only five modules.
[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;177277]The old 46 CFR 10 is now 46 CFR 11.
§11.435 Requirements for master of inland self-propelled vessels of unlimited tonnage.
(a) The minimum service required to qualify an applicant for an endorsement as master of self-propelled vessels of unlimited tonnage on inland waters, excluding the Great Lakes is—
(1) One year of service as first-class pilot (of other than canal and small lakes routes) or mate of Great Lakes or inland self-propelled vessels of 1,600 GRT or more while holding a license or MMC endorsement as mate inland or first-class pilot of Great Lakes and inland self-propelled vessels of unlimited tonnage
----------[/QUOTE]
Why would it have to be sailing as Mate or FCP? Sailing as Master is clearly superior experience. Is one year of seatime sailing as a watchstanding Master while holding Master 1600 Oceans sufficient?
Has anyone been approved for Master INLAND using seatime while sailing as Master, instead of Mate or FCP?
[QUOTE=tugsailor;185716]Why would it have to be sailing as Mate or FCP? Sailing as Master is clearly superior experience. Is one year of seatime sailing as a watchstanding Master while holding Master 1600 Oceans sufficient?
Has anyone been approved for Master INLAND using seatime while sailing as Master, instead of Mate or FCP?[/QUOTE]
I pointed out to the NMC evaluator that seatime sailing as Master is superior to time sailing as Mate. I was approved to test.
