Inland Sea time


#1

Hi Everyone.

I was just curious as to if anyone knew if unlimited Inland Mate time counted toward anything besides Inland Master? I have about 400days unlimited Inland time and was wondering if any of it would count toward advancing my current 3rd Mate unlimited oceans license. The CFRs are very confusing as to what can transfer and what can’t. My goal is to get some of this time to transfer to advance to 2/M unlimited oceans. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.


#2

I don’t think so. The folks at Washington State ferries who come in with Ocean licenses are unable to upgrade as I remember. 3/M oceans working inside the demarcation line can go to Inland Master and that’s it.


#3

Not sure about the current rules, but in 2002 I was able to cross over from WSF Inland Master to 2nd Mate Oceans after testing.


#4

[QUOTE=MMAGuy;25936]Hi Everyone.

I was just curious as to if anyone knew if unlimited Inland Mate time counted toward anything besides Inland Master? I have about 400days unlimited Inland time and was wondering if any of it would count toward advancing my current 3rd Mate unlimited oceans license. The CFRs are very confusing as to what can transfer and what can’t. My goal is to get some of this time to transfer to advance to 2/M unlimited oceans. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.[/QUOTE]

If you get the Master Inland unlimited tonnage with Great Lakes, you can actually cross over to Unlimited Master Oceans/Near Coastal. Of course, that would mean taking all of the STCW Chief Mate Courses when crossing over. Of note, you need time on the Great Lakes, unless you hold the Master Inland for a certain amount of time, and they will let you sit without actually having been on the Great Lakes. I would have to review the regs, it’s been a while, but there is a way to cross over on the upper end, not sure about the rest.


#5

About 400 days…

Why that outta make you bosom buddies with Davey Jones hisself, an’ a close companion to King Neptune too.

Why don’t you see if they’ll make you an Admiral of the Seven Seas with all that experience?


#6

Thanks for the “help” Seadog. I wasn’t expecting to do much with the 400 days, just seeing if anyone knew if any of it counted toward something. I don’t view myself as a Master Mariner or anything, but thanks anyway.


#7

Can’t believe I forgot about the crossover from Master AGT Inland to 2/M Oceans, seeing as I’m in the process of doing just that right now. D’oh!


#8

dougpine, thanks for the info. I did some more digging and according to the 2/M Oceans checklist, I can upgrade to 2/M oceans from Master AGT inland with a limited exam (maybe my 3/M exam already qualifies). Master Inland unlimited requires 360 days as a Mate to upgrade in addition to the full exam. Looks like taking the Master AGT Inland exam is my next step. Thank you everyone.


#9

You can also apply for Master 1600 Oceans along with your 2/M. If approved you’ll have to take a crossover exam.


#10

“I have about 400days unlimited Inland time and was wondering if any of it would count toward advancing…”

“I wasn’t expecting to do much with the 400 days…”

“Looks like taking the Master AGT Inland exam is my next step.”

What year did you graduate?


#11

2007 from Mass Maritime


#12

Back in 2000, I used one year of Great Lakes 3rd Mate and First Class Pilot time to upgrade to Inland Master AGT, then 2nd Mate Oceans and Master 1600 tons. This was before STCW, but if you already have 3rd Mate Oceans with STCW OICNW then I would imagine you would be ok.

Below is the USCG Checklist for Master Great Lakes and or Master Inland

Sea Service Requirements Reference:

Great Lakes
360 days of service as Mate or FCP while acting in the capacity of 1st
Mate of GL vessels over 1600 GRT,
720 days of service as Master INL vessels over 1600 GRT, OR
360 days of service upon GL while holding an Officer endorsement as
Mate or FCP of GL & INL of vessels over 1600 GRT, OF WHICH:
180 days of service as 1st Mate, AND
Service as 2nd Mate accepted: 2 for 1; for a maximum of 180 days.

Inland
360 days service as FCP (other than canal & small lakes routes) or Mate of
GL or INL steam/motor vessels over 1600 GRT, OR 11.435
720 days of service as Wheelsman or QM while holding a Mate or FCP
endorsement.


#13

Interesting, I have held the master agt inland for over 10 years. Do you mean being eligible to sit for the gl endorsement, or the master unl. nc?


#14

The CFR’s do allow some inland time to count towards 2/M oceans. The USCG does not like to allow it though. We had a guy sailing 1/M on GL and they raked him over the coals about it for months before allowing it.
Check out 46CFR10.403. That gives the licensing structure and if I’m reading it correctly, Inland Master with 24 months can sit for 2/M Oceans. Good luck.


#15

You cannot use inland sea time for any license that requires STCW 95. Back in 2005 I had a letter to take my exams for n/c unlimited master from my geat lakes master unlimited license. The week before taking the exams I was informed that I could no longer do this due to the STCW code. I spend the next year fighting them all the way to the licensing meeting in Washington. I lost. Thank god I had gotten my second mate ocean a few years before. Next week I will be applying for unlimited master ocean. After having gone back to second & chief mate.


#16

Not true!

Regarding this. My question becomes, “Did you take all of the STCW training and assessment requirements for the Management Level?”. If you did not, I could have told you (of being denied) in one second without contacting the Coast Guard whatsoever. That would have been a losing battle from the beginning. Being that you did not mention spending $25,000 in courses for nothing, I doubt that was the case - just guessing. You cannot skirt the STCW requirements, but that does not mean you have to start over. I think you wasted a lot of time. Reference 46 CFR 11.401 . You can also look at the very checklist used by evaluator that show the career path http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/checklists/MCP-FM-NMC5-42%20Master%20AGT.pdf?list1=checklists%2FMCP-FM-NMC5-42+Master+AGT.pdf&B1=GO%21


#17

All Chief Mate & Master STCW classes were complete along with the sign off’s for c-nav. All my paper work and classes were in order. You can no longer use the CFR’s for licenses that require STCW95. You have to use the STCW code. I spent a year in a law suit to force the REC’s to follow the CFR. I lost, bassed on NAVIC 02-08 & the STCW code. I know several great lakes masters unlimited tonnage trying to get offshore licenses right now. Thay have all been told the same thing. No. I know how you feel. I lived it. This week I will be sending in my appliacation for unlimited master ocean. After having gone back and getting one year as ONIC while holding a second mate ocean & one year as Chief Mate. If you have an AB you can get your BST and rating to stand a navigaition watch. After three years seatime along with your STCW classes and sign off’s you can get your third mate license. Oh! the checklist means nothing. It has not been changed to reflect the STCW 95 code.


#18

[QUOTE=cmate;26164]All Chief Mate & Master STCW classes were complete along with the sign off’s for c-nav. All my paper work and classes were in order. You can no longer use the CFR’s for licenses that require STCW95. You have to use the STCW code. I spent a year in a law suit to force the REC’s to follow the CFR. I lost, bassed on NAVIC 02-08 & the STCW code. I know several great lakes masters unlimited tonnage trying to get offshore licenses right now. Thay have all been told the same thing. No. I know how you feel. I lived it. This week I will be sending in my appliacation for unlimited master ocean. After having gone back and getting one year as ONIC while holding a second mate ocean & one year as Chief Mate. If you have an AB you can get your BST and rating to stand a navigaition watch. After three years seatime along with your STCW classes and sign off’s you can get your third mate license. Oh! the checklist means nothing. It has not been changed to reflect the STCW 95 code.[/QUOTE]

I can certainly understand how you feel if you went through an episode with the Coast Guard. I wish I could have helped with this situation before. The policy letter is http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/marpers/pag/04-02.pdf . The Coast Guard uses their policy letter for STCW interpretation and do not use the code at all as a reference point. Unless it goes up the chain of command, but that rarely results in anything, and they usually revert to policy - verbatim. Problem is, they misinterpret their own policy more than you know. The policy writers that were there before are not the same people that are applying that policy today.
My question, being that you went back to second mate, just to get OICNW, and that required year of sea service, what did it take to get the OICNW endorsement? I am curious if the Coast Guard required you to take all courses and assessments at the Operational Level, after you already took everything (courses and assessments) at the Management Level.


#19

I had my license and third mate stcw before 2002. When I got the inland master unlimited back in 2002/03 I took the test to upgrade to second mate ocean & 1600 ton master at the same time. CK’s Licensing service is very up on what is going on with trying to convert inland sea time to offshore. It just cannot be done any more. Now, if the USCG started requireing STCW for inland, it would start to count again. The fastest way to get offshore with an inland license is to take BST. Find a supply boat company to work for, and get an OSV license. OSV is a US license designed to get around the STCW 95 code.


#20

I had looked into this recently and found that a Inland Master can obtain the 2nd mates endorsement by completing the “prescribed examination” whatever that is. Your 400 days of seatime as an inland mate should qualify you as an inland master. Apply for both and see what they tell you. Good luck.

From the 2nd mate checklist

<TABLE dir=ltr border=1 cellSpacing=2 borderColor=#000000 cellPadding=7 width=534><TBODY><TR><TD bgColor=#ffffff height=32 vAlign=top width=“56%”>
[LEFT]A Master of GL &/or Inland of AGT, may obtain this endorsement by completing the prescribed examination. [/LEFT]

</TD><TD bgColor=#ffffff height=32 vAlign=top width=“44%”>46 CFR 11.406

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>