"I'll gladly pay you Thursday for a Hamburger today"

Beats the hell out of the Walmart or Jiffy Lube pension plan. I’m glad the ruling families went and borrowed the millions and billions of dollars to start these companies so I can have a job. I’m even more glad every other Friday.

[QUOTE=c.captain;90882]we’ll I only say that true longevity and loyalty to one’s employer (if that is what the companies want) is best achieved with a financial incentive. That would be best done if the companies did in fact offer a pension or some form of bonus which was truly based on the number of years of employment there.

Those of you out there you have 15 or more years with ECO, would you not like to know that they were putting something aside for you? Same with HOS or OCLLC? Wouldn’t it be nice to know when you reach retirement, that the company did more that to just give you a nice token of all those years of service? Would it be not nice for one years pay for every 15 years? Put in 30 and get 300K and a thank you? Not like the companies couldn't afford it for a man to have spent 30 years working for you. Many men like that at OCLLC and to the best of my knowledge none have one single dollar coming to them yet the Candies family are probably worth close to a billion ![/QUOTE]

It’s not their responsibility to take care of you for the rest of your life. If that is what you want, move to a socialist country, do your time in the military or start saving now. They did not take you to raise, they took you to work. If you choose to work for what you consider a substandard wage, then maybe you should have done better in school.

Be responsible for yourself, take responsibility for your actions and plan ahead.

remember where this thread started and see now where it is at and what an amazing transformation has taken place with the rhetoric coming from y’all

on this one, I see which way the wind blows from the masses here so you have all spoken and so it goes now and forever more…

just what Gary and Todd and Shane and Otto Jr. and all the rest of the Joe Bosses out there want

Can’t you take a hint you old commie!

Look I know what the day rates are. I’ve added up the payroll. I see our monthly budget. Depending on how each vessel is crewed payroll can eat 30%-40% of the day rate. Depending on age and what shape the boats is in you can take off another 10%-20% for maintenance. The rest is kicked up to the office. Now the rest goes in the pot for operations and corporate payroll. So I can see maybe a third of the day rate left over for actual profit and that’s if the boat is paid for. If its a newer vessel still being paid for then there may be nothing left after making the monthly note. If they have to knock a percentage off for a crew pension it’s gonna come from the payroll budget. Why should I feel owed a pension. It’s the owners money. I wasn’t sitting next to him signing my name when he was borrowing the millions to front the operation. I get my cut of his money every other Friday.

[QUOTE=Fraqrat;90911]Can’t you take a hint you old commie!

Look I know what the day rates are. I’ve added up the payroll. I see our monthly budget. Depending on how each vessel is crewed payroll can eat 30%-40% of the day rate. Depending on age and what shape the boats is in you can take off another 10%-20% for maintenance. The rest is kicked up to the office. Now the rest goes in the pot for operations and corporate payroll. So I can see maybe a third of the day rate left over for actual profit and that’s if the boat is paid for. If its a newer vessel still being paid for then there may be nothing left after making the monthly note. If they have to knock a percentage off for a crew pension it’s gonna come from the payroll budget. Why should I feel owed a pension. It’s the owners money. I wasn’t sitting next to him signing my name when he was borrowing the millions to front the operation. I get my cut of his money every other Friday.[/QUOTE]
Business models have changed drastically since the '70s. The company pension was a big selling point from HR. With all of the gom companies that merged or went tits up in the late’70s and early '80s, the 401K looked pretty good.
Even though my SIU pension worked out well for early retirement, I couldn’t live this comfortable if I had chose to live on my overtime instead of investing it.

ok Fraq…so you don’t want or feel you deserve a pension

enough said and far be it from me to make you take one but very strange tho for someone to feel this way but fine by me…

it’s your retirement someday…not mine. I personally plan to retire in a fine cardboard box I’ve stashed away for myself. Got an awesome felt hat and overcoat so I have nothing to worry about!

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[QUOTE=c.captain;90915]ok Fraq…so you don’t want or feel you deserve a pension

enough said and far be it from me to make you take one

very strange tho for someone to feel this way but fine by me…it’s your retirement someday…not mine.[/QUOTE]

Oh, c. capt. Pensions were designed to insure longevity back when companies wanted their brains and talent to stay with them for the long term, The CEOs back then didn’t get million dollar bonuses for quarterly profits they got to keep their jobs by slowly and surely growing the company. They used pensions as a deferred wage and the employee was happy knowing they would not have to be a financial guru to have a comfortable retirement. Non-union companies also gave pensions, many of them. But now the emphasis is on this years profits not the long term health of the company. Now the employee is the financial genius that is going to choose his investments wisely. New houses and new cars and good food are not investments but in the short term it makes some feel like they are doing just great! In the mean time they invest the remainder like people who are not professional money managers because…they are not. I care not one whit how much money somebody invested to make themselves rich. I do care how much they value my expertise to help them do so.

I would love to have a pension don’t get me wrong. I don’t feel it’s owed to me. Joe Boss is paying me enough that I can set up my own pension. If I can’t be responsible and save my money I’ll do like the masses and blame someone else. RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE where’s my retirement? Why would I want to take the chance the money I was banking on being there suddenly wasn’t? What happens if the company isn’t doing well and pay outs go down? What if what if? Now I’ve put myself in a position where I’m dependent on someone else and it bit me in the ass. Now I’m to old to work and I’m screwed.

[QUOTE=Fraqrat;90919]I would love to have a pension don’t get me wrong. I don’t feel it’s owed to me. Joe Boss is paying me enough that I can set up my own pension. If I can’t be responsible and save my money I’ll do like the masses and blame someone else. RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE where’s my retirement? Why would I want to take the chance the money I was banking on being there suddenly wasn’t? What happens if the company isn’t doing well and pay outs go down? What if what if? Now I’ve put myself in a position where I’m dependent on someone else and it bit me in the ass. Now I’m to old to work and I’m screwed.[/QUOTE]

Pensions are guaranteed by the PBGC even if the company goes belly up, unlike a 401k which is guaranteed by no one. When the stock market took a nose dive in 2008 and many 401ks lost most of their value the pensions kept right on paying their full amount.
If you are dependent on a 401k for all your retirement you need to be sure your are both an expert investor and retire at the right moment in time.

Yeah I don’t trust that one either. I just put in what they match. I’d rather take care of my own money. One thing for sure nothing in life is guaranteed. I think PBGC is elective not required so you may still end up with any empty bag in the end.

Ok, forget pensions but instead let’s talk about longevity pay which comes at certain mileposts in a career. IF the whole idea is for the companies to build loyalty of their workforce and be there longterm, would it not be appropriate or desirable for an employee of a company to get something for being loyal and not job jumping all over the industry? One month of pay for each full year with a company paid at 5 year marks? Maybe after ten years with a single company one and a half months pay for each year from 10 to 20? Then two months for each year of 20 to 30? Some kind of scale that rewards a man to stay for so long where the longer one stays the bigger the payout in the end? Plenty of 30+ year men at OCLLC (I worked with many) who get nothing for all those years except good pay. I know the remainder of the benefits there suck eggs, but the company loves to tell each man how critical they are to the company’s success and that OCLLC would not be where they are today without them. They certainly never hesitated to tell me everytime I was in the office or the bosses visited the boat I was on. Yes, it is nice to not get laid off but remember that these companies know that downturns are cyclical and do not last and if they lay off the majority of their people at each downturn they have to get them back afterwards. They keep people because they know it is in their longterm interest to do so even when the boats aren’t working full out. That is their reality to live with and why they do it. I don’t believe they enjoy paying out all that money when the truckloads of cash aren’t flowing in like in the goodtimes but they do it all the same. Those who do lay off usually pay heavily when the boats all need to be remanned and sent back to work. You can always toss away good people and hire fresh bodies but we all know that shows in the operation over the longterm. Having a stable loyal workforce if always in any company’s interest.

Remember that this is all based on there being a perpetual shortage of highly qualified and experienced mariners in the next three or more decades to come. If there will be no shortage then there would be no reason for any of this so what will the reality be? If it is shortage then the mariners should be rewarded. SO I’M A SOCIALIST COMMIE FOR SAYING THIS BUT WE ARE NOT OUT THERE WORKING OFFSHORE FOR THE ADVENTURE AND SEX! We are out there to earn and our work does allow the companies to make their excellent profits and to grow so exponentially like they are these days. THANK GOD FOR THE JONES ACT THAT THEY NEED US LIKE THEY DO! If they were to try to breach that then we are all DOOMED and that is why I am the LOUDEST voice here to always highlight when companies try. THIS LEGAL RIGHT OF OURS MUST ALWAYS BE FOUGHT FOR!

Easy fella we’re all on the same side of that argument. It’s the weekend tone it down. I’m not arguing that none of these things you mention wouldn’t be nice. I’m just saying I’m not gonna be miserable because I don’t get these extra benefits. In the grand scheme of things I’m looking at the glass half full. I’m employed when many aren’t and I make really good money. If in the future they want to give me a pension I’ll gladly take it. If that never happens I’m still gonna work for the company as long as I’m being taken care of. By being taken care of I mean treated with respect, a nice working environment and my checks showing up on time.

Just listened to a couple of tug boaters on the VHF. Company is going under and the union can’t find them more jobs. Pensions are gone. One guy had almost 20yrs in and was probably counting on his pension instead of taking care of himself.

Point being, it all sounds nice, but I can only count on me to take care of me.

[QUOTE=c.captain;90939]Ok, forget pensions but instead let’s talk about longevity pay which comes at certain mileposts in a career. IF the whole idea is for the companies to build loyalty of their workforce and be there longterm, would it not be appropriate or desirable for an employee of a company to get something for being loyal and not job jumping all over the industry? One month of pay for each full year with a company paid at 5 year marks? Maybe after ten years with a single company one and a half months pay for each year from 10 to 20? Then two months for each year of 20 to 30? Some kind of scale that rewards a man to stay for so long where the longer one stays the bigger the payout in the end? Plenty of 30+ year men at OCLLC (I worked with many) who get nothing for all those years except good pay. I know the remainder of the benefits there suck eggs, but the company loves to tell each man how critical they are to the company’s success and that OCLLC would not be where they are today without them. They certainly never hesitated to tell me everytime I was in the office or the bosses visited the boat I was on. Yes, it is nice to not get laid off but remember that these companies know that downturns are cyclical and do not last and if they lay off the majority of their people at each downturn they have to get them back afterwards. They keep people because they know it is in their longterm interest to do so even when the boats aren’t working full out. That is their reality to live with and why they do it. I don’t believe they enjoy paying out all that money when the truckloads of cash aren’t flowing in like in the goodtimes but they do it all the same. Those who do lay off usually pay heavily when the boats all need to be remanned and sent back to work. You can always toss away good people and hire fresh bodies but we all know that shows in the operation over the longterm. Having a stable loyal workforce if always in any company’s interest.

Remember that this is all based on there being a perpetual shortage of highly qualified and experienced mariners in the next three or more decades to come. If there will be no shortage then there would be no reason for any of this so what will the reality be? If it is shortage then the mariners should be rewarded. SO I’M A SOCIALIST COMMIE FOR SAYING THIS BUT WE ARE NOT OUT THERE WORKING OFFSHORE FOR THE ADVENTURE AND SEX! We are out there to earn and our work does allow the companies to make their excellent profits and to grow so exponentially like they are these days. THANK GOD FOR THE JONES ACT THAT THEY NEED US LIKE THEY DO! If they were to try to breach that then we are all DOOMED and that is why I am the LOUDEST voice here to always highlight when companies try. THIS LEGAL RIGHT OF OURS MUST ALWAYS BE FOUGHT FOR![/QUOTE]

Take a breath and a nitroglycerin pill before you stroke out on us.

If you had done the legwork required to form a company, would you not pay the market price for labor? I wish I could get paid as much as a professional athlete but I don’t think it is going to happen anytime soon. I think we are being rewarded but unfortunately we are all glorified bus drivers or truck drivers in their eyes. However, I believe we are better paid than they are.

Here’s a radical idea, maybe we all need to start driving a harder bargain individually or form an organization that would bargain for all of us.

[QUOTE=BMCSRetired;90943]Here’s a radical idea, maybe we all need to start driving a harder bargain individually or form an organization that would bargain for all of us.[/QUOTE]

That would require a group of seamen that would actually stick together…Good luck with that…

no worries Chief…I have a well stocked supply of my little pinkies and a full bottle of Famous Grouse on hand

If you had done the legwork required to form a company, would you not pay the market price for labor? I wish I could get paid as much as a professional athlete but I don’t think it is going to happen anytime soon. I think we are being rewarded but unfortunately we are all glorified bus drivers or truck drivers in their eyes. However, I believe we are better paid than they are.

wasn’t that many years ago we weren’t paid much better than truckdrivers then 2005 happened but regardless the number of USCG & industry qualified people is not equal to the new vessels entering service so the curve is on the mariner’s side…simple supply and demand economics here. Of course, there is a huge glut of UL masters and mates out there which the companies could use to drive bridge wages down but the companies don’t want those guys and would much rather “their” men to be running the vessels so these older UL guys sit on the sidelines wishing they could get in the game but only the fresh fish right out of school end up getting the call to come play for the team.

Here’s a radical idea, maybe we all need to start driving a harder bargain individually

That would be nice but never happen unless you are such a golden haired boy that a single company believes you cannot be replaced but anchorman and CaptRob1 eventually found better deals and left…there is just so far as any OMSA company is willing to walk to meet a single man

or form an organization that would bargain for all of us.

note that this leftwing socialist commie didn’t even say that

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Oh brother this again…

[QUOTE=Fraqrat;90955]Oh brother this again…[/QUOTE]

what again?

Wow!

I have to set the drag lighter in the future. That one ripped the pole right out of my hand. Good thing I can afford another one. I think I got the right bait though.

OMSA…UL people… companies want “their” people…man you can’t help your self can you?