Hornbeck and ECO physical requirements

cajaya · May 29, 2012, 3:35pm

I went down to New Orleans to interview with Hornbeck.

They said I would be hired if I passed the “physical” and that is was a tough physical at that.

I felt pretty confident because I have always felt stronger than average for a girl.

They told me that the weight lifting portion is what usually gets most girls.

When I got there, I managed to lift 85lbs (I just wanted to note that I haven’t worked on a ship for a year).

When I left, I felt pretty confident that I would be hired because I think the coast guard only requires 50lbs and I’m pretty sure OSHA says its supposed to be two people for anything more than 50lbs anyway.

So once again, I lifted 85lbs, that’s EIGHTY-FIVE. A few days later, Hornbeck calls me and tells me that they are sorry

but I didn’t lift the SEVENTY-FIVE pound minimum, that I wouldn’t be hired but that I could come back and take the physical

in two months.

Of course I am a little upset about this, because if its just that they don’t want to hire a girl, they should not have invited me to come all the way to New Orleans and not offer to pay for the transportation.

Since I was already in the gulf, I applied other companies in the area and well as some drilling companies.

I then went to the ECO office and they seemed to like me alot and wanted to hire me on the spot. Of course I had to go through their physical as well. They told me upfront that my grip strength had to be 90psi and I knew right away that I wouldn’t pass because my grip strength when I took the Hornbeck physical was 80psi.

I went and took the physical anyway, and the gauge on the ECO doctor’s dynamometer read 60psi! I know that people
who don’t pass ECO’s grip strength test sometimes workout for a few days and then go back and pass if it’s just 10psi under, but I don’t know how I could have possibly gone from 80 to 60 in just a few days!

I told the doctor that I just taken this test and that maybe his dynamometer gauge is off and got really mad and suggested that maybe the other doctors’ was off.

I know that the grip strength dynanomemters are suppose dot be calibrated once per year. How do we know if these doctor’s are actually doing this?

And has anyone at all had a similar experience with Hornbeck blatantly lying to them or having such extremely different results with different doctors?

Are all the doctors in the south just crooked company men?

c.captain · May 29, 2012, 3:59pm

would you delete the other duplicate post of yours please?

thank you

c.captain · May 29, 2012, 10:44pm

I do know that some of the companies in the GoM are almost Nazilike in their physical standards and I have been x-rayed enough times to have a lifetime’s supply of mili-rems of radiation plus been bled for what must be a quart of blood. I’ve blown in their tubes will I almost passed out, pedaled stationary bikes with electrodes all over me until I could pedal no more, jumped, squatted, squeezed, lifted, climbed, crawled, with a heart rate monitor strapped around me. Sat in soundproof booths with a little button in my hand. Pissed in a hundred cups (just up to the line and don’t flush the toilet!) Turned my head and coughed, bent over and think I’ll stop there for now.

Then one time I mention all this to my personal physician and he asks if it would be possible to get the results so he can look them over and the company says “sorry, they belong to us” AND I WAS STILL WORKING FOR THEM AT THE TIME! Even worse was N/D’s pre-employment agreement. In the part about physical health information they demanded me to sign over to them the right of access for every medical record of mine from the time of my effing BIRTH! I signed the goddamned thing but if it ever came to a fight over it, I was prepared to tell them I had never been to a doctor since I was born and force them to prove otherwise!

tugsailor · May 30, 2012, 5:24am

These company physical requirements have really gotten way out of hand. I understand that companies need to protect themselves from spurious injury claims, but they have gone too far.

Does one really need to be young and in super shape in order to sit in a pilothouse chair and wiggle a joy stick?

The companies that make the Biodex and Cybex strength and agility testing machines are really pushing this testing to companies in every industry. This is growing rapidly.

I recently took a short course at one of the academies. I stopped by the career services office for a chat. I was given the story that out of the last 20 guys (kids) the academy had sent down to ECO only 12 could pass the physical. The other 8 passed physicals elsewhere.

The USCG should improve its physical requirements to meet international standards and issue a seaman’s medical card like they do elsewhere. An employer should be allowed to ask to see the medical card, and nothing more.

jdcavo · May 30, 2012, 5:34am

[QUOTE=tugsailor;70491]The USCG should improve its physical requirements to meet international standards and issue a seaman’s medical card like they do elsewhere. An employer should be allowed to ask to see the medical card, and nothing more.[/QUOTE]

This is in our proposed ruilemaking for the 2010 STCW. (The 2010 amendments require the medical certificate to be issued by flag states (every two years).

water · May 30, 2012, 10:40am

[QUOTE=tugsailor;70491]The USCG should improve its physical requirements to meet international standards and issue a seaman’s medical card like they do elsewhere. An employer should be allowed to ask to see the medical card, and nothing more.[/QUOTE]

It can be a problem clearing into a new country with USCG credentials, unless the bureaucrat you are dealing with understands that the USCG only requires a medical every five years, and the only proof you have of that physical is the fact that your MMC is current. Most bureaucrats are looking for papers for a separte medical certificate issued within the past two years.

So far we have been able to talk our way out of any problems with the bureaucracts.

Quimby · May 30, 2012, 10:58am

The physical scares me the most. I finally cleared the CG physical for my upgrade in December, but because I had a near syncopal event and a patent forumen ovale (PFO)back in 2006, I had to go through a gauntlet of medical testing proving there was nothing wrong with me. I have documentation from all the doctors, but I’m worried that it won’t suffice for when I apply to ECO and other companies. I suppose all I can do is bring my medical record and hope for the best. Otherwise, I’m SOL.

BMCSRetired · May 30, 2012, 11:15am

[QUOTE=nwitherly77;70515]The physical scares me the most. I finally cleared the CG physical for my upgrade in December, but because I had a near syncopal event and a patent forumen ovale (PFO)back in 2006, I had to go through a gauntlet of medical testing proving there was nothing wrong with me. I have documentation from all the doctors, but I’m worried that it won’t suffice for when I apply to ECO and other companies. I suppose all I can do is bring my medical record and hope for the best. Otherwise, I’m SOL.[/QUOTE]

Do u really think that compared to some of the physical specimens that work in the GOM, you are going to have a problem. Check out one of those “Wonders of Walmart” sites and you will see what is expected of you.

lemurian · May 30, 2012, 12:53pm

Similar yet different: passing a yearly physical exam is a requirement to maintain pilotage. An employer asking for the exam results is reasonable if your job requires pilotage.

NAUTICART · May 30, 2012, 3:32pm

[QUOTE=BMCSRetired;70522]Do u really think that compared to some of the physical specimens that work in the GOM, you are going to have a problem. Check out one of those “Wonders of Walmart” sites and you will see what is expected of you.[/QUOTE]

[B][I]Geeeeeze [/I]BMC… between you and cCapt. I just got some baaaad visions… lol[/B]

tugsailor · May 30, 2012, 3:57pm

These strength and agility tests, and the use of MRIs by employers are a growing trend that is heavily promoted by the “occupational specialists” who are making money off of it. At the rate they are goin it won’t be long before the retirement and medicare age will need to be dropped to 40 because no one over 40 will be employable.

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Pre-work agility testing for drivers
February 8th, 2012

Con-way Truckload to join list of carriers requiring pre-work agility testing for drivers

Strength and agility testing has become one of the most effective means of promoting health and safety in the workplace, helping to eliminate injuries experienced by employees in physically demanding jobs.

The American with Disabilities Act provides that “an employer may give a physical agility test to determine physical qualifications necessary for certain jobs prior to making a job offer if it is simply an agility test and not a medical examination.”

Drew Bossen with Atlas Ergonomics, a company that helps employers administer these tests, says “more and more carriers are requiring this type of pre-work screening in an effort to hire healthier work-forces who are more capable to do their jobs safely. And in the trucking industry, that means safer roads for everyone.”

Atlas Ergonomics provided us with some of the most frequently asked questions regarding pre-work screening:

Why am I asked to participate in a Pre-Work Screen?
The work demands associated with “Trucking” are vigorous and challenging. We want to make certain that you can perform the required demands of the job safely.

Do I need to participate in the Pre-Work Screen?
Yes… as a driver candidate you are required to participate as a condition of your employment. Candidates who choose not to participate will not be considered for employment.

What if I feel the Pre-Work Screen demands are beyond my current physical capabilities?
Under no circumstances should you proceed if you feel the physical demands of the Pre-Work Screen are beyond your current physical capabilities. Please inform the screener if this is a concern.

What if I am unable to pass the Pre-Work Screen?
If you are unable to pass the Pre-Work Screen you will not be considered for employment at this time, though future employment is certainly an option.

What happens when I pass the Pre-Work Screen?
Upon passing of the Pre-Work Screen, you will proceed with your training session.

Safety First and Always…

Download the PDF and see the 10 exercises

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Tags: activities on the road, agility, exercise, fitness, health and fitness goals, healthy eating, injuries, safety

c.captain · May 30, 2012, 4:26pm

[QUOTE=lemurian;70533]Similar yet different: passing a yearly physical exam is a requirement to maintain pilotage. An employer asking for the exam results is reasonable if your job requires pilotage.[/QUOTE]

I think high medical standards are good for those of us in good physical condition as anything that reduces the number of those qualified makes those who do pass more competitive. Reduce supply and the companies will have to raise wages to attract those of us who meet the standards. Yet, it is unfair to those who are marginal like the original poster. The problem is in that middle area.

I feel that mariners who let their bodies go are a safety issue to a vessel since 1. they cannot effectively participate in an emergency response and 2. might require to be rescued in an emergency risking those who need to rescue them.

I had a chief engineer sent to me once who was at least 300# and literally unable to safety go down a steep ladder into the ECR. In an emergency, I could easily see him taking a header down that ladder. Not good imo.

tugsailor · May 30, 2012, 4:53pm

At our age, the simple truth is that we are wearing out. I’m sure we can both scurry up ladders in an emergency just fine, but could we withstand MRI’s and computerized machines that measure our age related disk deterioration and examine the “smoothness” of every joint in our bodies? Companies don’t care about our health, safety, or emergencies, all they care about is getting sued. My neighbor tells the story of his shipmate who broke a leg in a car accident. The leg healed up just fine in six weeks, but the company doctor’s Biodex machine says the joint motion is too rough. He figures that he’s beached forever over a broken leg that is now ok.

Its good that we maybe worth a higher day rate because we are going to be paying a lot more taxes to keep all these people on welfare who are “medically unfit” to work.

skycowboy · May 30, 2012, 11:25pm

I think Cajaya has a pretty good discrimination suit going here. After all, us guys have an un fair advantage on the grip test.

But until then,Get a grip

Jemplayer · May 31, 2012, 4:22am

They really want a grip over 75psi? Didn’t know MT’s DP sticks required that much strength… :rolleyes:

I think Chouest Doc is a flunky. When I had a physical with them he took this crazy high BP. Went back to Nicky and he was like that crazy that’s stroke territory and everybody I’ve sent him today has had really high BP. I’m not the healthiest guy buy a long shot, but at 25 that BP reading was crazy even for me. Anyway went to my doc got on some stuff and passed a week later.

I’ve found with the those strength test to not kill it from the get go. When I did the one at Chouest I eventually had them let me look at the screen so I could see what I was doing as I could get it to spike at around 125 but couldn’t maintain it. When he said just keep it above this line and saw how far above it I was going i was able to back off and build in to it and maintain.

The one’s that piss me off are when you are filling out a job application and they want to know every little thing health related before they even offer you a job, International stands out in my mind. I’ve begun to take a non of your god dam business approach to that and lie. What business is it of there’s if a person suffers from IBS, Priapism, Psoriasis, or a Tonsillectomy when I was 10? If it dosen’t in some way directly affect the job I am doing fuck you.

tugsailor · May 31, 2012, 12:32pm

Fitness Testing

Fitness Testing > Tests > Strength > Handgrip
Handgrip Strength Test
Grip Strength Test
Camry Hand Dynamometer

The purpose of this test is to measure the maximum isometric strength of the hand and forearm muscles. Handgrip strength is important for any sport in which the hands are used for catching, throwing or lifting. Also, as a general rule people with strong hands tend to be strong elsewhere, so this test is often used as a general test of strength.

equipment required: handgrip dynamometer
procedure: The subject holds the dynamometer in the hand to be tested, with the arm at right angles and the elbow by the side of the body. The handle of the dynamometer is adjusted if required - the base should rest on first metacarpal (heel of palm), while the handle should rest on middle of four fingers. When ready the subject squeezes the dynamometer with maximum isometric effort, which is maintained for about 5 seconds. No other body movement is allowed. The subject should be strongly encouraged to give a maximum effort. See videos of the Handgrip Strength Test


hand grip dynamometer variations: The position of the hand can vary in different protocols. Various positions include the elbow being held at right angles as per the above procedure, the arm hanging by the side, and the extended arm being swung from above the head to by the side during the squeezing motion. The Eurofit Test Manual recommends squeezing for 3 seconds. The procedure for the Groningen Elderly Tests has the subject hang their hand by their side, one practice trial, best of three attempts with 30 seconds rest between.
scoring: The best result from several trials for each hand is recorded, with at least 15 seconds recovery between each effort. The values listed below (in kg and lbs) give a guide to expected scores for adults. These values are the average of the best scores of each hand. See more Hand Grip Strength Norms. Other protocols will just use the score from the dominant hand, or compare the left and right hand results. See also examples of some actual athlete results.

MALES 	FEMALES

rating* (lbs) (kg) (lbs) (kg)
excellent > 141 > 64 > 84 > 38
very good 123-141 56-64 75-84 34-38
above average 114-122 52-55 66-74 30-33
average 105-113 48-51 57-65 26-29
below average 96-104 44-47 49-56 23-25
poor 88-95 40-43 44-48 20-22
very poor < 88
< 40
< 44
< 20

norms for adults. source and population group unknown

validity: The validity of this test as a measure of general strength has been questioned, as the strength of the forearm muscles does not necessarily represent the strength of other muscle groups. If you wish to measure the strength of a particular muscle group, there are other specific tests that can be performed.
reliability: the dynamometer may need to be calibrated regularly to ensure consistent results. Having consistent technique and adequate rest is required to ensure reliability.
advantages: This is a simple and commonly used test of general strength level, well researched and many norms are available.
disadvantages: The dynamometer must be adjusted for hand size, how successfully this is done will affect the accuracy of the measurement.
comments: It is also useful to record whether the athlete is left or right handed, as this may help in the interpretation of results. The non-dominant hand usually scores about 10% lower. The forearm muscles are easily fatigued, so the best scores are usually achieved in the first or second trial.

Related Pages

Video examples of the Handgrip Strength Test
This test is part of the Ice Hockey SPARQ rating, Eurofit Test Manual, Groningen Elderly Tests plus many others.
more Hand Grip Strength Norms
there are some grip strength test results of athletes.
List of other strength and power tests.

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