Haws Pipe a Viable Option?

Professional Mariner Forum
1

Hi All,

I am new to this forum and have strongly considered going into the maritime industry for several years now. I am currently just about to graduate college and the thought of working in an office doesn’t seem very appealing too me. I am sure you guys have heard this about a million times before, however my situation I think is a little bit different. I currently work in the sport-fishing industry in Southern California and have had my 100 master near coastal for about 3.5 years. According to my research I will have enough time to get a 150 ton master oceans/ 500 ton mate license very soon and a AB special (no sea time on vessels over 100 tons, majority spent on boats between 67-100 tons) .I love working on the water but I don’t want to be dependent on a volatile industry like the one I’m in too make a living. I have been in school for the last 5 years and going for another 4 years to a maritime school and spending even more money doesn’t sound very appealing either. I am especially interested in working on tug boats and have been looking at the work boat academy, although I am not ruling working on a large ship. So basically I have 2 routes that I have come up with ;

[U]Hawspipe[/U]: (15,000 dollars, 1-2 years) Getting my AB special along with my 100 ton , then after getting hired shell out the money too upgrade too a 500 ton mate or, get the one year of required sea time over 100 tons and upgrade too 500 ton/ 1600 ton master and hopefully get a master/ mate of towing endorsement

[U]School:[/U] (33,000, 2 years) Going to one of the Work Boat Academies and spending 2 more years too get a 500 ton/ 1600 ton mate with towing endorsement

(80,000, 4 years)Going to one of the Maritime Academy

Basically I have a quite a few questions:

  1. Is it viable to get hired with no tug experience and an AB special/ 100 ton masters? Would getting a 500 ton mate before being hired be a gamble or a sure thing to getting hired?
  2. Does work boat academy add alot of value, and is it hard to get into?
  3. I keep seeing on the license requirement checklist a TOAR; can anyone explain to me what this is and how it pertains to getting a towing endorsement on a license?
  4. What are the odds of being able to stay living in southern California (not important at this point)

Thank you for any feedback

2

2 other options I looked into was SIU program and even joining the Navy/ Coast Guard. I know a few people who did their 20 and got out with a 1600 ton/ 2nd Mate UL. Any feedback on these routes?

3

oh dear God…I ain’t gonna rip your head off even though I want badly to. It’s just that I promised Mike I wouldn’t decapitate any FNGs anymore (at least for awhile)

please be kind to us unwashed mariners and read at least a few of the hundreds and hundreds of old posts which answer these very questions

btw, not like I like being a spelling Nazi but it is hawsepipe…not Haws Pipe or hawspipe.

4

why not go apply for jobs you want while thinking about it? IF you get hired, youre set, if you don’t, go back to school…

5

[QUOTE=Jason Z;145219]Hi All,
Basically I have a quite a few questions:

  1. Is it viable to get hired with no tug experience and an AB special/ 100 ton masters? Would getting a 500 ton mate before being hired be a gamble or a sure thing to getting hired?
  2. Does work boat academy add alot of value, and is it hard to get into?
  3. I keep seeing on the license requirement checklist a TOAR; can anyone explain to me what this is and how it pertains to getting a towing endorsement on a license?
  4. What are the odds of being able to stay living in southern California (not important at this point)
    Thank you for any feedback[/QUOTE]
  1. Not sure what the hiring situation is for tugs, though it seems like that’s an expanding sector of the industry. Companies I’ve heard anything about seem to want 500/1600 GRT licenses. Seems like an AB can always find a job. You’ll be able to find a 100-ton (probably training) captain job with a crewboat or mini-supply company, but it may take a few rounds of door-knocking before you are there the day someone walked off a boat, got popped on a drug test or got arrested for DWI the day before crew change. Draw your own conclusions aboUT some of the folks you’ll be working with if you go that route.
  2. Towing Officer Assessment Record. A company’s USCG-approved Designated Examiner signs -off on your competence. Basically a way for folks who already have a license to transition to towing. Or so I understand it. Maybe one of the tug guys will chime in.
  3. For the vast majority of available jobs you will be home max slightly less than half the year, possibly as little as 1/3 of the year. You could probably find some part of the country much cheaper to store your stuff.

If I were 22 all over again, and single and childless, I would hawsepipersonally it, rent the cheapest liveable place I could find close to either a) where I crew change, or b) where I’ll be taking classes. In a state with no income tax and a reasonable cost of living. You’ll save enough money to fly back to So Cal as often as you like. And then some.

Feels like a slowdown in the Gulf right now; on the other hand, there should be quite a few guys retiring in the next few years … if you can get in and hold on, at your age with some training and sea time already in the bag, you could perhaps make a pretty good career of it. Good luck.

6

I sure hope its an option or else I’m going about this all wrong…

But speaking as someone who’s climbing the pipe from a similar starting point, yes it’s doable but you’ll have to put in your time.

7

I would see if you can find a job on deck somewhere on a tug or OSV anywhere you can and get a feel for the industry. Take some classes on your time off to get the AB and some other endorsements and after about a year you will have a much better handle on things. You’re still young so you have plenty of time. At first glance i would say go hawsepipe. Call vane brothers or Bouchard on the east coast. They aren’t perfect but they usually need people.

Good luck!

8

[QUOTE=txh2oman;145274]1. Not sure what the hiring situation is for tugs, though it seems like that’s an expanding sector of the industry. Companies I’ve heard anything about seem to want 500/1600 GRT licenses. Seems like an AB can always find a job. You’ll be able to find a 100-ton (probably training) captain job with a crewboat or mini-supply company, but it may take a few rounds of door-knocking before you are there the day someone walked off a boat, got popped on a drug test or got arrested for DWI the day before crew change. Draw your own conclusions aboUT some of the folks you’ll be working with if you go that route.
3. Towing Officer Assessment Record. A company’s USCG-approved Designated Examiner signs -off on your competence. Basically a way for folks who already have a license to transition to towing. Or so I understand it. Maybe one of the tug guys will chime in.
4. For the vast majority of available jobs you will be home max slightly less than half the year, possibly as little as 1/3 of the year. You could probably find some part of the country much cheaper to store your stuff.

If I were 22 all over again, and single and childless, I would hawsepipersonally it, rent the cheapest liveable place I could find close to either a) where I crew change, or b) where I’ll be taking classes. In a state with no income tax and a reasonable cost of living. You’ll save enough money to fly back to So Cal as often as you like. And then some.

Feels like a slowdown in the Gulf right now; on the other hand, there should be quite a few guys retiring in the next few years … if you can get in and hold on, at your age with some training and sea time already in the bag, you could perhaps make a pretty good career of it. Good luck.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for your feed back. I understand that my 100 ton is almost useless in the kind of position I would be looking for. A couple guys that were in my license class worked on crew boats (99 tons) up in Oxnard and in the gulf, and they made it seem like a great gig. I am really interested in Tugs, but I am more then interested in any opportunity.

      • Updated - - -

[QUOTE=c.captain;145230]oh dear God…I ain’t gonna rip your head off even though I want badly to. It’s just that I promised Mike I wouldn’t decapitate any FNGs anymore (at least for awhile)

please be kind to us unwashed mariners and read at least a few of the hundreds and hundreds of old posts which answer these very questions

btw, not like I like being a spelling Nazi but it is hawsepipe…not Haws Pipe or hawspipe.[/QUOTE]

I have read hundreds of old posts on similar subjects and alot of them start off people ripping the posters head off for not using the search function, but I am sorry for any redundancies in my post.

      • Updated - - -

[QUOTE=JackAubrey;145275]I sure hope its an option or else I’m going about this all wrong…

But speaking as someone who’s climbing the pipe from a similar starting point, yes it’s doable but you’ll have to put in your time.[/QUOTE]

How far long are you, and what position are you in?

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From past experience and training I advise all young aspiring boat handlers to stay away from pushing oil and other refined products. Red flags are a “no go” if you want real world training. Dredges, rock barges, container barges, ship docking. Anywhere tug to vessel contact happens very,very frequently is where you wanna be if you wanna be worth your salt one day. The Dann towing outfits, Norfolk tug, the Smith outfits, Moran and McAllister all still like to bump and grind the ole ways.

1 Like
10

Not taking anything away from working on tugs. But just a thought, starting on a inland Tug is gonna be dirt pay, if your an AB on a ocean going tug you can make some coin. In my opinion your best bet is working on OSVs or ocean tugs as AB. However you won’t likely see much wheel time if any.

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I feel it all depends on your amount of heart and conviction you have. If you are willing to hump and bust your butt, hawsepipe is the way to go. Tugboat life isn’t going to be like sport fishing. No baiting hooks or pulling on fishing poles and lines. Deck Preventive maintenance, cleaning bilges, greasing wires, splicing lines and depending on the type of tug, it could involve much more dirty work than you ever imagined. Blood, sweat, bumps, bruises and body aches are a part of the gig.

Workboat program and SIU piney point will get you the training, but they will get there monies worth of work out of you as well. Nothing is free!!!

Most important thing to remember is that nobody hires someone to have them move on. The moment you mention that you are going for your mates license, most AB’s will stop helping or training you. Why would they train someone who is going to move on or turn around and “act as if they know so much more the day after they get there license.” I have seen that happen a hundred times.

If you smart enough and have the means to complete a maritime academy degree, do it! If your conviction to become licensed isn’t strong enough, you will end up settling like many do…

12

Being from so cal and growing up on sportboats, just let me say you are on the right track and get out while you can. I know the season was good this year but the sooner you get out and get on workboats the better off you will be. I got out in the late 90s and it was easier to make the transition then. It is way more competitive these days.

There isn’t exactly a thriving workboat industry in so cal as most of us know. It’s kinda hard to get something with a solid schedule. Having basic safety training STCW is critical. I would make that a priority.

You can spend days searching through old threads on here getting the information you need, and will help you decide what route you want to take. Have some patience and get the ball rolling. Feel free to PM me if you have any specific questions.

13

Yeah I would venture to guess that their are plenty of people out their who started on sport boats in Southern California. Even a fantastic season like this and you still cant make a living. It would seem to me that it would take alot more skill to be inland operator (like on the Mississippi) then ocean going tugs. What is considered dirt pay in the industry? Sorry for all the questions but I would like to have all the information possible.

14

“Dirt Pay” is relative. If you are unemployed and the bills are stacking up, $75/day is dirt pay. If you have a job paying >$100k/year then $500/day is dirt pay. It all depends on your current situation.

15

‘dirty pay’ is relative. I know how sportfishing is. There are a handful of guys out of san diego that do pretty good. Other than that it’s feast or famine at its worst. Any workboat job is a step up in my opinion. Consistent work year-round is what I would be concerned about. If you are an AB and say you work for Foss or Millenium in LA/LB for example, you can probably make around 80k a yr. If you are using your 100 ton running crewboats for Ship Services, you can probably make around 50k or 60k a year working on call if you never turn down work. Stick with them for a while and you could get on a boat that has a schedule. Remember pay isn’t exactly competitive in so cal because there are so few companies. Overall, even with the harbor jobs, wages are somewhat behind industry standards.

If you don’t care about traveling, there are way more opportunities in the GOM, PNW and east coast. However, you have a lot of credentials to get to make yourself more marketable. The opportunities are out there, just have to put the research into it. As was stated before, damn near every supply boat/tugboat company has been discussed here, also many topics on license upgrades and career advancement as well.

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[QUOTE=Jason Z;145336]

How far long are you, and what position are you in?[/QUOTE]

Jason,

I am on my second issue 100 ton NC operating crewboats in the GOM at the moment. Over the past 18 months I have been taking classes towards moving up to 500 ton and hopefully will take the license test in the spring. I started out as a deckhand on headboats, charter boats and commercial fishing boats in Galveston, TX and worked my way up from there. I’ve been fortunate to have had the opportunity to run various kinds of vessels including headboats, charter boats, research boats, a construction barge and dinner boats and it’s been my experience that the oilfield work is the most consistent and lucrative so far. A captain in training on a decent sized crewboat working a 28/14 schedule should be looking at around $65k to $70k per year to start. That schedule and income has allowed me the time and money to take the classes I need to upgrade.

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Ok I decided to revist this post after about 2 months of extensive research. I believe that the oil fields seem like the most attractive work opportunities monetarily , with running a ship assist boat seeming like the most fulfilling and exciting work. However I am very concerned with the drop in the price of oil and fear hitting a bust period right when I want to start out. Also I have read that starting out on a OSV is not the best way to learn how to become a good mariner I think a direct quote I read on here is that you will learn how to clean a toilet really well but not much else if you start on a OSV. So I think the biggest decision I have to make is to start on tugs, work for 5 years or so and get some experience with boat handling and then go down to the gulf or make the plunge right away and start as an AB on an OSV and try to move up to the wheel house. A third option is to get on a crew boat as a training captain with my 100 ton, get some Gulf of Mexico experience and then move over to the bigger ships and get my 500/3000 .I am not looking for the quickest route, just the one that will give me the most career opportunities. Any input is greatly appreciated.

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[QUOTE=Jason Z;149167]Ok I decided to revist this post after about 2 months of extensive research. I believe that the oil fields seem like the most attractive work opportunities monetarily , with running a ship assist boat seeming like the most fulfilling and exciting work. However I am very concerned with the drop in the price of oil and fear hitting a bust period right when I want to start out. Also I have read that starting out on a OSV is not the best way to learn how to become a good mariner I think a direct quote I read on here is that you will learn how to clean a toilet really well but not much else if you start on a OSV. So I think the biggest decision I have to make is to start on tugs, work for 5 years or so and get some experience with boat handling and then go down to the gulf or make the plunge right away and start as an AB on an OSV and try to move up to the wheel house. A third option is to get on a crew boat as a training captain with my 100 ton, get some Gulf of Mexico experience and then move over to the bigger ships and get my 500/3000 .I am not looking for the quickest route, just the one that will give me the most career opportunities. Any input is greatly appreciated.[/QUOTE]

You will still spend a lot of time cleaning the crapper on tugs. . . . .

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[QUOTE=cmakin;149168]You will still spend a lot of time cleaning the crapper on tugs. . . . .[/QUOTE]

That’s fine, sounds like my skills will be transferable then. However will I spend more time rigging lines, watching the master maneuver the boat, practicing maneuverig, dealing with different navigational situations, ect.?

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or you could take a class…(flat fee or commission on your ‘‘earnings’’) about how to get over on the govt. and qualify for a half dozen benefit programs and be a meaningful participant in protests and riots, mabey get on tv if you forget everything youi would of learned going to sea!!!