Just lost a great fiber optic cable lay job in the central Pacific because I do not have an ENG1 Certificate. I know the seafarers in the rest of the world (at least Europe) seem to have them, but can they be obtained in the US and how does one go about it? Anybody else out there run across this problem?
Piss on the bloody lousy USCG for being so far behind the rest of the world on the certification of mariners…no wonder foreign ship operating companies won’t touch us! Once the US used to lead the world on matters maritime, now we don’t know our preverbial asses from our elbows!
Try asking the people at www.mptusa.com or www.yachtmaster.com , they have dealings with MCA license applicants.
Hey, I had one of those a couple times for an English cruise ship I worked on, I got one of them in Ft Lauderdale, Florida at a small seamans medical center, cant remember the name. It was one of the lamest physicals I ever did, but maybe that was because of my position onboard(not a deck or engine officer). Seriously, it took about 20mins. good luck
<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=4 align=center><TBODY><TR bgColor=#e6e6e6><TD vAlign=top>Dr S M Green
</TD><TD vAlign=top>Newport Hospital Occupational Health
Borden Carey Building, Suite G-40
11 Friendship Street
Newport
Rhode .Island 02840
</TD><TD vAlign=top>001 401 845 1245[B] [/B]
</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#c5c5c5><TD vAlign=top>Dr E Grenet
</TD><TD vAlign=top>Health Medical Centers
1493 SE 17 Street
Fort Lauderdale
Florida
33316
</TD><TD vAlign=top>001 954 525 7595[B] [/B]
</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#e6e6e6><TD vAlign=top>Dr M D Cull </TD><TD vAlign=top>4259 23rd Avenue W,
Suite 200
Seattle
W A 98199
</TD><TD vAlign=top>001 206 686 4878
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http://www.mcga.gov.uk/c4mca/mcga07-home/workingatsea/mcga-medicalcertandadvice.htm
Don’t get apoplectic when you walk into one of those places and find the people there getting ENG1 certificates are dirty yachtie types that you seem to dislike so much.
[QUOTE=c.captain;40892]now we don’t know our preverbial asses from our elbows![/QUOTE]
We? I would leave the elbow out of this. I’m thinking the head is more involved with the ass here. I doubt very seriously the Coast Guard has anything to do with you losing a job you didn’t have to begin with.
[QUOTE=anchorman;40912]We? I would leave the elbow out of this. I’m thinking the head is more involved with the ass here. I doubt very seriously the Coast Guard has anything to do with you losing a job you didn’t have to begin with.[/QUOTE]
The fact is that the ENG1 is part of the STCW Code which the USCG has chosen to dispense with along with relaxing many of the training requirements thus foreign shipowners (especiall;y European) consider Americans not fully STCW ‘95 and as a result, our STCW certificates are not considered as valid. Add to this a misconception that Americans are less than hard working, complainers who are overpaid and prone to filing unseaworthiness claims and voila’, we’re not considered for positions. Do you know any American seafarers working for Acergy, Subsea7, Coflexip, or Heerma (to name but a few of the very large international offshore contractors)? In their postings on OilCareers.com (which are frequent, especially for Acergy), those companies seem to always list candidates having a current ENG1 or medical certificate in their job requirements. Also how many times do you see OCS-B1 visa required but never “US citizen” as an alternative? Simply put, us Americans are not wanted by these companies (even on our own OCS) and I believe the USCG plays a big role in that. I would rather have to pass the higher standards of the STCW as written and have that certificate recognized around the world.
A big thank you to JeffRox for posting the list of physicians in the US who do ENG1 exams. I just wished I had asked this question a week ago when I was still in consideration for the job. One is very close to where I live…damn!
The UK MCA ENG1 is not part of STCW. A requirement for a maritime authority to issue a “medical fitness” certificate is. As a matter of fact, even the MCA accepts the medical certificates of such medically advanced nations as Bulgaria, Mauritius, Slovakia, Slovenia, Cyprus and a few others. They don’t accept our medical certificates but will issue a license equivalent for certain certificates. There is a little document called an STCW white list that each maritime authority may add or remove whoever they feel like for whatever STCW requirement they choose.
Here is the UK information and the white list of medical certificates they will accept: http://www.mcga.gov.uk/c4mca/1815.pdf
" … foreign shipowners (especiall;y European) consider Americans not fully STCW '95 and as a result, our STCW certificates are not considered as valid."
It works both ways, look at each country’s maritime authority White List.
“… I would rather have to pass the higher standards of the STCW as written and have that certificate recognized around the world.”
Your wish is coming true. That is why the CG is changing all those lower level licenses. We got a bad name for sending domestic licenses on international voyages and annoying port states all over the world.
Not that it will do anyone much good to argue with a potential employer but it is flag state that determines which medical certificate they will accept. Unless the flag of the vessel is UK, most others, even the Red Ensign Group of flags will accept a USCG medical certificate. The UK probably will soon since the CG has raised the medical standards. The prudent mariner will look at the flag of the vessel and determine which certificates and endorsements are needed and which are accepted on their white list.
Whether you will get anywhere with HR telling them your medical is just fine now is another story altogether, they don’t read regulations, they just follow a checklist provided by someone else who doesn’t really know what is acceptable and what isn’t.
Jamaica will issue you a ENG1 medical certificate, mon.
Take a vacation and get a physical. Jamaica is on the “white list” but I wouldn’t make a big issue of that while down there.
Tengineer
Here is exactly what I am referring to…
Master on Pipelay Vessel, Subsea 7
Experience and Education (required)
[ul]
[li]Class 1 Master (Unlimited)[/li]> [li]DP certificate (Unlimited)[/li]> [li]Valid Medical Certificate[/li]> [li]Training & certification in accordance with the Subsea 7 Training Matrices for the vessel[/li]> [li]Experience from pipe lay operations[/li]> [/ul]
They won’t accept the USCG STCW/License as proof of medical fitness
[QUOTE=c.captain;40913]The fact is that the ENG1 is part of the STCW Code which the USCG has chosen to dispense with along with relaxing many of the training requirements thus foreign shipowners (especiall;y European) consider Americans not fully STCW ‘95 and as a result, our STCW certificates are not considered as valid. Add to this a misconception that Americans are less than hard working, complainers who are overpaid and prone to filing unseaworthiness claims and voila’, we’re not considered for positions. [/QUOTE]
Your post isn’t doing anything to dispel the misconceptions you cite.
[QUOTE=c.captain;40981]They won’t accept the USCG STCW/License as proof of medical fitness[/QUOTE]
…and the Coast Guard will not accept an ENG1 Medical Certificate, but that’s hardly the reason not to get what’s needed when time to renew. I mean, hell…tell them that you HAVE the damn thing, but it’s at home - on your desk…that’s what I would do. Then get the damn thing.
Formalities should not keep you from getting a job and it certainly should not cause someone to blame the Coast Guard because of it. That’s like blaming the cat food company for the neighbors dog eating your cat’s food.
The medical fitness of US mariners should be equal to or greater than the world standard but they aren’t and I say they should be. Why are we not issued a medical fitness certificate if all the other nations issue them and the STCW says we are supposed to have them? Plain and simple…no?
As for getting my own ENG1 fitness certificate? Your damn right I am going to get one and not lose another good job as a result. My original post was to find out exactly how a US national goes about that process…
[QUOTE=c.captain;40981]Here is exactly what I am referring to…
They won’t accept the USCG STCW/License as proof of medical fitness[/QUOTE]
That’s because neither a USCG license or a USCG STCW certificate is a medical fitness certificate. A medical certificate is exactly what the name says.
Like I wrote earlier though, what the company HR people want vs what the flag state accepts may be different. The flag state might be just fine with a current USCG medical certificate but if the HR guys only accept the ENG1 even though they probably don’t have a clue what ENG1 means (it is the number of the form the UK MCA uses, just like the CG uses CG-719K) you are stuck playing their game.
It almost sounds like you have been working without having to provide a medical certificate other than a quickie “fit for duty” slip from the local industrial medicine shop. That just doesn’t fly in the world of international shipping these days and the IMO has some pretty strict definitions on the medical standards and duration of the certificate’s validity. Just getting a medical for a renewal doesn’t cut it anymore.
Again, as I have said before…the USCG does not issue a seperate STCW approved medical fitness certificate like other signatory nations do and that very fact places American mariners at a disadvantage. The medical fitness certificates are supposed to be issued as part of the STCW certification from the mariner’s home nation. We don’t get them and the shipowners of nations other than the US don’t understand why we don’t. Under the STCW Code, it is their right to ask for them and our duty to provide same. I’ve tried to tell several non US companies that our government doesn’t issue a fitness certificate to US mariners but they still expect them. When one can’t be produced… poof, job disappears! I guess that I am going to have to go get one on my own, but I shouldn’t be required to. So it goes…
My point throughout is if the USCG followed the STCW and issued us the certificates we are supposed to have, then American mariners might get a chance at a job on some of those pretty damned nice foreign built and owned vessels. Have you seen some of the ships in Acergy’s or Subsea 7’s fleets! They kick the sh_t out of anything US companies are operating and they need people!
[QUOTE=c.captain;40999] I guess that I am going to have to go get one on my own, but I shouldn’t be required to. [/QUOTE]
Regardless of the semantics regarding your displeasure of the Coast Guard, whatever is required - be it a medical certificate, passport, immunization records… you will always have to get it on your own. Just make sure you show them your TWIC when you get to the UK so they can say “What the bloody hell is that chap”?
[QUOTE=c.captain;40999]Again, as I have said before…the USCG does not issue a seperate STCW approved medical fitness certificate like other signatory nations do and that very fact places American mariners at a disadvantage. The medical fitness certificates are supposed to be issued as part of the STCW certification from the mariner’s home nation. We don’t get them and the shipowners of nations other than the US don’t understand why we don’t.
My point throughout is if the USCG followed the STCW and issued us the certificates we are supposed to have …[/QUOTE]
If you have had a medical lately and have a CG-719K you have an STCW compliant medical fitness certificate already.
You can have all the pretty papers you can imagine but that doesn’t mean any particular company or even country has to accept them. If you are looking for a level playing field, go play billiards.
The STCW code provides a framework for national maritime authorities to “flesh out” as they see fit so long as the meat meets the minimum standards of the convention. ENG1 is just the little number on the page that the Queens printers used to identify the document. What part of that don’t you understand? The USCG equivalent is the CG-719K and fulfills the STCW requirements just the same. The fact that the UK doesn’t like the USCG medical certificate is their own internal affair and isn’t even followed by other members of the Red Ensign Group. The US is on the IMO white list and that is what matters. UK port state control doesn’t detain US flagged ships because our crews don’t hold a piece of paper that has ENG1 printed on it.
Because STCW allows each maritime authority leeway in how they print and issue documents you won’t get some standard piece of paper like you think we are supposed to have … there isn’t a standard form. The recent and upcoming changes to licensing and the new MMC are changes we have already made to make our certificates more like other nation’s. But even the Europeans have goofy looking pieces of paper that serve as medical fitness certificates. What exactly do you want? Why is it so hard to believe the CG-719K is not a medical fitness certificate as defined by the ILO, the IMO, and the WHO? Our medical certificate is good enough for Panama, the Cayman Islands, Marshall Islands and nearly everyone else on the white list. Look up ILO C-73 and see who the signatories are … the originator of the vaunted ENG1 is not among those who have ratified the convention, neither is the US. So don’t whine about the US not providing the same standard as the UK as regards STCW.
http://www.nfmm.no/tmm/5-international-conventions-and-regulations-of-importance-to-maritime-medicine/58-pre-sea-medical-examinations
[B]White List checklist [/B]
[I]Each IMO Member on the White List has submitted and had verified the following information: [/I]
· the name, postal address and telephone and facsimile numbers and organization chart of the ministry, department or governmental agency responsible for administering the Convention;
· a concise explanation of the legal and administrative measures provided and taken to ensure compliance, particularly with (STCW) regulations I/6 and I/9;
I/9 is the medical fitness certificate
[QUOTE=Steamer;41005]If you have had a medical lately and have a CG-719K you have an STCW compliant medical fitness certificate already.
You can have all the pretty papers you can imagine but that doesn’t mean any particular company or even country has to accept them. If you are looking for a level playing field, go play billiards.
The STCW code provides a framework for national maritime authorities to “flesh out” as they see fit so long as the meat meets the minimum standards of the convention. ENG1 is just the little number on the page that the Queens printers used to identify the document. What part of that don’t you understand? The USCG equivalent is the CG-719K and fulfills the STCW requirements just the same. The fact that the UK doesn’t like the USCG medical certificate is their own internal affair and isn’t even followed by other members of the Red Ensign Group. The US is on the IMO white list and that is what matters. UK port state control doesn’t detain US flagged ships because our crews don’t hold a piece of paper that has ENG1 printed on it.
Because STCW allows each maritime authority leeway in how they print and issue documents you won’t get some standard piece of paper like you think we are supposed to have … there isn’t a standard form. The recent and upcoming changes to licensing and the new MMC are changes we have already made to make our certificates more like other nation’s. But even the Europeans have goofy looking pieces of paper that serve as medical fitness certificates. What exactly do you want? Why is it so hard to believe the CG-719K is not a medical fitness certificate as defined by the ILO, the IMO, and the WHO? Our medical certificate is good enough for Panama, the Cayman Islands, Marshall Islands and nearly everyone else on the white list. Look up ILO C-73 and see who the signatories are … the originator of the vaunted ENG1 is not among those who have ratified the convention, neither is the US. So don’t whine about the US not providing the same standard as the UK as regards STCW.
http://www.nfmm.no/tmm/5-international-conventions-and-regulations-of-importance-to-maritime-medicine/58-pre-sea-medical-examinations
[B]White List checklist [/B]
[I]Each IMO Member on the White List has submitted and had verified the following information: [/I]
· the name, postal address and telephone and facsimile numbers and organization chart of the ministry, department or governmental agency responsible for administering the Convention;
· a concise explanation of the legal and administrative measures provided and taken to ensure compliance, particularly with (STCW) regulations I/6 and I/9;
I/9 is the medical fitness certificate
[/QUOTE]
Steamer,
I have to hand it to you. You like doing other people’s homework and take the time to put it here, but if you keep going in this direction, you might as well go get the damn physical for c.captain too, because that about what it will take. He already said he should not be required to get one even if it’s a requirement of an employer. Can’t change opinion of an old salty dog.
If Crescent City Pilots called with a job, but said I needed a rectal examination for employment - I might not agree with it, but I sure as hell would be butt ass naked grabbing ankles at the doctors office before bitching about it here.
OK, the CG-719K is of recent existance and no, I do not have one because my last license renewal was in 2008 before the new physical fitness standards were implemented. Obviously, my STCW cert was issued under an old system and in 2013, I will become compliant. This is something that I am trying to come up with a solution for with getting an ENG1 Certificate to satisfy non US shipowners until I get the USCG form. The ENG1 iseems to be one recognized universally by shipowners and flag states and worth having.
I will admit that I did not understand the CG-719K is an STCW compliant certificate, but do now. Obviously, anything that does make the US system compliant with the world standard is a good thing. I still wished I had known how to get that ENG1 when I still had a shot at the job but the window for it was only open to me for about three days and when I couldn’t present the ENG1, I had to withdraw from consideration. Like I had said earlier, it sounded like a very good job and I was sorry to have to give it up just for not having one piece of paper when I have a three ringed binder filled with so many others.
Lastly Anchorman…I never have said that I do not want to have to face higher medical fitness standards. In actuality, I believe the new standards are a GOOD thing and I am glad that they have been implemented.