Ebola and the US Merchant Marine

yea, she’s a nurse, has everyone’s best interest in mind? I wonder if some progressive agency isn’t putting her up to this?

[QUOTE=jimrr;147117]yea, she’s a nurse, has everyone’s best interest in mind? I wonder if some progressive agency isn’t putting her up to this?[/QUOTE]

I assume you are talking about Kaci Hickox, who has post-grad degrees in Tropical Medicine and Epidemiology and has been working overseas for over a decade? If she didn’t have other people’s best interests in mind she wouldn’t go to those places in the first place.

Meanwhile, nobody’s screaming about the doctors and nurses who are right now caring for the one remaining Ebola patient, Dr. Spencer, in NY. They go home after every shift yet not a peep out of any politician much less the public. I wonder why that is, no I know why. Because fear sells votes and it’s election time. And people flying in from Africa can generate a lot more irrational fear.

I am not going to subscribe to fear and superstition. I will stick to science and evidence-based practice everytime, and as long as she is not symptomatic, the chances of her infecting another are zilch.

Meanwhile, the people bitching about Kaci better damn well have their flu shots on board or they can zip it, in my opinion. I’m more likely to catch the flu bug from a shipmate at any rate. No excuse, it’s free almost everywhere. I got mine a month ago.

[QUOTE=catherder;147126]I assume you are talking about Kaci Hickox, who has post-grad degrees in Tropical Medicine and Epidemiology and has been working overseas for over a decade? If she didn’t have other people’s best interests in mind she wouldn’t go to those places in the first place.

Meanwhile, nobody’s screaming about the doctors and nurses who are right now caring for the one remaining Ebola patient, Dr. Spencer, in NY. They go home after every shift yet not a peep out of any politician much less the public. I wonder why that is, no I know why. Because fear sells votes and it’s election time. And people flying in from Africa can generate a lot more irrational fear.

I am not going to subscribe to fear and superstition. I will stick to science and evidence-based practice everytime, and as long as she is not symptomatic, the chances of her infecting another are zilch.

Meanwhile, the people bitching about Kaci better damn well have their flu shots on board or they can zip it, in my opinion. I’m more likely to catch the flu bug from a shipmate at any rate. No excuse, it’s free almost everywhere. I got mine a month ago.[/QUOTE]

I see this as no different from the swine flu scare, the bird flue scare. . . and any others that didn’t pan out at all. Interesting timing and all during an election year, too. . .

[QUOTE=cmakin;147130]I see this as no different from the swine flu scare, the bird flue scare. . . and any others that didn’t pan out at all. Interesting timing and all during an election year, too. . .[/QUOTE]

It’s a dream come true for Chris Christie (NJ) and Paul Lepage (ME). Lepage says he’s acting to protect Mainers but meanwhile, he refused federal funding to expand Medicare, he won’t start a state health exchange, and he’s knocked thousands off the MaineCare rolls. All because he “cares.”

Oh it’s a real disease and it’s a bad one…but the way to fight it is by stopping it at its origin, and not by vilifying and stigmatizing the people who go over there to help.

[QUOTE=catherder;147126]I assume you are talking about Kaci Hickox, who has post-grad degrees in Tropical Medicine and Epidemiology and has been working overseas for over a decade? If she didn’t have other people’s best interests in mind she wouldn’t go to those places in the first place.

Meanwhile, nobody’s screaming about the doctors and nurses who are right now caring for the one remaining Ebola patient, Dr. Spencer, in NY. They go home after every shift yet not a peep out of any politician much less the public. I wonder why that is, no I know why. Because fear sells votes and it’s election time. And people flying in from Africa can generate a lot more irrational fear.

I am not going to subscribe to fear and superstition. I will stick to science and evidence-based practice everytime, and as long as she is not symptomatic, the chances of her infecting another are zilch.

Meanwhile, the people bitching about Kaci better damn well have their flu shots on board or they can zip it, in my opinion. I’m more likely to catch the flu bug from a shipmate at any rate. No excuse, it’s free almost everywhere. I got mine a month ago.[/QUOTE]

Also, these recent instances are far from the first time medical professionals have returned to the US after working in west Africa. It’s probably been going on for at least 10 years without incident.

[QUOTE=catherder;147134]It’s a dream come true for Chris Christie (NJ) and Paul Lepage (ME). Lepage says he’s acting to protect Mainers but meanwhile, he refused federal funding to expand Medicare, he won’t start a state health exchange, and he’s knocked thousands off the MaineCare rolls. All because he “cares.”

Oh it’s a real disease and it’s a bad one…but the way to fight it is by stopping it at its origin, and not by vilifying and stigmatizing the people who go over there to help.[/QUOTE]

LePage has no business being governor but he hasn’t done too bad on this. Besides Ebola there is also the issue of fear of Ebola, it’s a real thing. Hickcox could close a business down with just a visit, that’s not fair even if it is irrational.

The latest court ordered restrictions are not onerous given the fear, she is no longer restricted to the house but is allowed to go out and about to a degree. People need time to acclimatize to new threats, especially ones which originate in the “Dark Continent”

[QUOTE=Kennebec Captain;147143]LePage has no business being governor but he hasn’t done too bad on this. Besides Ebola there is also the issue of fear of Ebola, it’s a real thing. Hickcox could close a business down with just a visit, that’s not fair even if it is irrational.

The latest court ordered restrictions are not onerous given the fear. People need time to acclimatize to new threats, especially ones which originate in the “Dark Continent”[/QUOTE]

KC, your comments re: the “Dark Continent” (I mean, really?) are doing nothing for the conversation. You do realize that Africa is a large continent and we are talking about three countries in the western part of it right? Sierra Leone, Liberia and Guinea?

Secondly, we (as a nation) should not enact public policy based on fear. LePage is 1000 percent wrong the way he is handling this. He is stoking fears, not allaying them.

The restrictions are onerous considering that almost every health organization and expert in the nation has spoken out against the necessity for same. This is pandering to the timid.

I agree that caution must be exercised once a person becomes symptomatic (and note that Dr. Spencer contacted authorities once he did) but confining the non-sick is just ridiculous. We are basically saying by that action that we cannot trust doctors and nurses.

The hysteria has made it to this industry. We have already seen stevedores in Baltimore refuse to load a car carrier until they were assured of the previous itinerary. Good sense and level heads must prevail here or we’re all going to find ourselves stuck on a ship at anchorage somewhere.

Update:

Kaci Hickox has been ordered by a Maine court to stay 3 feet away from people and away from public places like restaurants. She can go outside and ride her bike. She cannot leave her town.

And that’s pretty much all she wanted. LePage is a horses ass and now he’s been owned boned and dethroned.

Not 100% maritime related but I was checking the website of a large equipment dealer im going to when I go home, they deal all over the world. Front page of the website there is a huge sign stating “if you have been in west africa, or been in contact with anyone with ebola withing the last 6 months DO NOT come to our business”. Im so glad im not flying thru the texas airports anymore.

[QUOTE=catherder;147146]Update:

Kaci Hickox has been ordered by a Maine court to stay 3 feet away from people and away from public places like restaurants. She can go outside and ride her bike. She cannot leave her town.

And that’s pretty much all she wanted. LePage is a horses ass and now he’s been owned boned and dethroned.[/QUOTE]

LePage is a horses ass but here is what LePage was asking for:

The statement outlines “what Maine considers an in-home quarantine requires,” but goes on to list approved activities outside the home. The guidelines would permit an individual in the “some risk” category to take walks, runs or ride their bicycle, as Hickox did, but ban them from public places and from coming within 3 feet of other people outside a group setting, LePage’s statement said.

Hickox refused to comply.

Even when peoples fears are irrational perceptions still matter.

[QUOTE=Kennebec Captain;147155]LePage is a horses ass but here is what LePage was asking for:

Hickox refused to comply. Even when peoples fears are irrational perceptions still matter.[/QUOTE]

Hickox has been the horsesass. Doctors and nurses are people just like anyone else and no, they cannot be trusted to put the public interest ahead of their self interest. The fact that two nurses contracted Enola treating a patient shows that medical profession has a lot to learn about Ebola and is not yet competent to deal with it. The fact that an Ebola infected doctor returned to New York and put others at risk before he realized that he had Ebola illustrates that an abundance of caution is required with returning aid workers.

[QUOTE=tugsailor;147157]Hickox has been the horsesass. Doctors and nurses are people just like anyone else and no, they cannot be trusted to put the public interest ahead of their self interest. The fact that two nurses contracted Enola treating a patient shows that medical profession has a lot to learn about Ebola and is not yet competent to deal with it. The fact that an Ebola infected doctor returned to New York and put others at risk before he realized that he had Ebola illustrates that an abundance of caution is required with returning aid workers.[/QUOTE]

I agree more or less. Lepage wasn’t being unreasonable in this case.

Risk and uncertainty are slippery concepts. What level of risk are we talking about? More then being struck by a meteor but less then heart disease or a car crash? I have no idea. My point is that the government has to of course deal with the problem but also has to appear to be doing the right thing. People have to have faith that the right thing is being done.

So far, one African with Ebola concealed his condition and went to Texas, exposed numerous people, and infected two nurses. The reckless CDC told one of those nurses that it was ok for her to fly to Ohio exposing more people.

An asymptomatic doctor returned to NYC and brought Ebola back with him. We do not know yet how many people he exposed to Ebola or how many of his contacts will contract the disease.

Therefore, the risk is real, immediate, and significant. Unlike any particular heart attack or a car accident that can only affect a few people, Ebola is a contagious constantly mutating disease that has the potential to change into a more communicable disease and infect millions.

Ebola is like a nuclear plant meltdown, far too catastrophic to allow, and requires an abundance of caution.
Travel to and from the Ebola affected region of Africa needs to be tightly controlled, all returnees should be subject to a mandatory quarantine for 30 days in some remote place, such as Diego Garcia before being allowed to return to the U.S. For once, our government should put the safety of innocent Americans at home first.

[QUOTE=tugsailor;147165]So far, one African with Ebola concealed his condition and went to Texas, exposed numerous people, and infected two nurses. The reckless CDC told one of those nurses that it was ok for her to fly to Ohio exposing more people.

An asymptomatic doctor returned to NYC and brought Ebola back with him. We do not know yet how many people he exposed to Ebola or how many of his contacts will contract the disease.

Therefore, the risk is real, immediate, and significant. Unlike any particular heart attack or a car accident that can only affect a few people, Ebola is a contagious constantly mutating disease that has the potential to change into a more communicable disease and infect millions.

Ebola is like a nuclear plant meltdown, far too catastrophic to allow, and requires an abundance of caution.
Travel to and from the Ebola affected region of Africa needs to be tightly controlled, all returnees should be subject to a mandatory quarantine for 30 days in some remote place, such as Diego Garcia before being allowed to return to the U.S. For once, our government should put the safety of innocent Americans at home first.[/QUOTE]

Only two people in the US caught Ebola in the US, and those two were nurses caring for a very acutely ill patient who died. Those nurses also revealed that their training and PPE were wholly inadequate for the job. None of the dead Liberian man’s family were infected, not even the woman he shared a bed with. So it appears it’s not as easy to catch as many think. But you want to quarantine everyone anyway.

And DG?

If someone quarantined in DG becomes symptomatic they will have to be evacuated to a hospital, probably in Europe, for treatment so what is the sense of quarantining someone there?

I never said that Ebola isn’t serious but succumbing to fear is not the way to handle it. And apparently I am not the only one, as a judge in Maine has released Kaci from in-home quarantine as long as she remains symptom free. She has some minor restrictions, that’s it.

Let me inform and remind you guys of what happens when you allow public fear to run roughshod.

When AIDS was first rearing its head in the US, the same kind of reactions took place and it was ugly. There was a Florida family with three brothers, the Ray family and the boys were hemophiliacs who were infected via blood transfusion. They were kicked out of school and their house was burned to the ground. That’s right. Burned. That’s the kind of shit that will happen again if people don’t get hold of themselves. Look it up.

It has to be stopped at the source. Fuck with these medics without valid medical/legal reason and you will see the numbers of doctors and nurses headed east drop off. Then what. Then you’ll really have something to crap your pants about.

[QUOTE=catherder;147145]KC, your comments re: the “Dark Continent” (I mean, really?) are doing nothing for the conversation. You do realize that Africa is a large continent and we are talking about three countries in the western part of it right? Sierra Leone, Liberia and Guinea?

Secondly, we (as a nation) should not enact public policy based on fear. LePage is 1000 percent wrong the way he is handling this. He is stoking fears, not allaying them.

The restrictions are onerous considering that almost every health organization and expert in the nation has spoken out against the necessity for same. This is pandering to the timid.
[/QUOTE]

You must have missed the quotation marks. Are you unfamiliar with that expression? It’s about people’s fear. Think Conrad’s “Heart of Darkness” It’s not a book about a trip to Disney Land.

The point is people’s perceptions. Do you think that the fact that this virus is from Africa is no way linked in people’s minds with perceptions about that continent? Do you think naming a bottle water brand after a river in Africa would help sales? People would be afraid to drink it least they get Malaria.

It looks like the judge in Maine gave the Public Health Department just what it asked for.

Further, with the CDC making major mistakes with Ebola containment, why should we expect a small town judge in the middle of nowhere to get Ebola containment right?

Christie and LaPage have handed Hickox instant fame and fortune. Don’t you see the coming speaking tour, book and movie? Hickox is going to be bigger than Richie Phillips.

[QUOTE=tugsailor;147174]It looks like the judge in Maine gave the Public Health Department just what it asked for.

Further, with the CDC making major mistakes with Ebola containment, why should we expect a small town judge in the middle of nowhere to get Ebola containment right?

Christie and LaPage have handed Hickox instant fame and fortune. Don’t you see the coming speaking tour, book and movie? Hickox is going to be bigger than Richie Phillips.[/QUOTE]

What mistakes has CDC made? Are you talking PR mistakes or technical mistakes?

[QUOTE=Kennebec Captain;147175]What mistakes has CDC made? Are you talking PR mistakes or technical mistakes?[/QUOTE]

The CDC failed to tell the Texas hospital the appropriate protocols and PPE for Ebola treatment. Two nurses became infected as a result of inadequate equipment and training and lack of proper protocols.The CDC advised a Texas nurse with Ebola symptoms, who had been treating the first Ebola patient, that she was ok to fly to Ohio in spite of her fever. Worst of all, the CDC did not, and has not, come out in favor of travel restrictions and mandatory quarantine for people returning from treating Ebola patients in Africa. Why should we think that healthcare workers in Africa are better protected than healthcare workers in Texas? Fact is, the CDC failed to take obvious precautions to prevent Ebola from coming to the US, and then it was caught flatfooted on how to contain the first case that arrived.

[QUOTE=tugsailor;147174]It looks like the judge in Maine gave the Public Health Department just what it asked for.

Further, with the CDC making major mistakes with Ebola containment, why should we expect a small town judge in the middle of nowhere to get Ebola containment right?

Christie and LaPage have handed Hickox instant fame and fortune. Don’t you see the coming speaking tour, book and movie? Hickox is going to be bigger than Richie Phillips.[/QUOTE]

Well at least unlike what I’ve seen and heard about Phillips, Hickox appears to be a well trained professional who knows her stuff. You should see her resume. She has post-grad education at places like The Johns Hopkins School of Public Health which has to be one of the best, if not the best, such program in the US.

All the judge in Maine did was acknowledge and permit Hickox to use the [I]established protocol[/I] for returning staff of Medicins Sans Frontieres which includes self-monitoring, not quarantine. She never said she opposed self-monitoring and is getting her temp taken twice a day so I really don’t understand why people insist on keeping her in a tent or a house or something like that while other returning staff face no such thing.

Incidentally, speaking of quarantine, those doctors and nurses on Spencer’s team at Bellevue are still not under any quarantine order. They go home end of shift every day, eat out, go to movies, etc. I’m really surprised none of you are up in arms about that.