I have done some research on deicing procedures on arctic vessels. I was surprised to see, at least in the research I have done, how primitive the measure were for ice removal. I found that baseball bats, chainsaws and other hand tools were the primary form of removal.
Can anyone tell me of other procedures used? We are a manufacturer of high pressure rig washdown systems. We can also include deicing features on our systems which include anti-icing agents that are approved for direct release into the sea.
If anyone would like to comment on this matter it would be much appreciated. Where/Who would you suggest I contact to further pursue this effort?
When I was working on a research ship up in the Chukchi Sea, I would always use an Easton Fungo. Of course, that was about 25 years ago, and perhaps they have now upgraded to a Worth Lithium SP.
But seriously, before I were to purchase any deicing system, I would want to see some serious testing of the equipment in harsh conditions. And by what authority was it approved it for direct release into the sea? And if I were you, I would troll the docks in Dutch Harbor and give it to one fishing vessel for free. If it works as advertised, everyone in the fleet will want one.
For the office, the crew with bats and axe handles will always be more cost effective than a “system”, mostly becuz the crew is already there and paid for and a system requires installation, certification and maintenance which costs $$$. Also a system does not care if it works, nor does it care if it capsizes. The crew on the other hand is usually VERY concerned about abandoning ship in icing conditions so it ALWAYS functions if it knows what is good for it.
[QUOTE=Capt. Fran;50778]When I was working on a research ship up in the Chukchi Sea, I would always use an Easton Fungo. Of course, that was about 25 years ago, and perhaps they have now upgraded to a Worth Lithium SP.
But seriously, before I were to purchase any deicing system, I would want to see some serious testing of the equipment in harsh conditions. And by what authority was it approved it for direct release into the sea? And if I were you, I would troll the docks in Dutch Harbor and give it to one fishing vessel for free. If it works as advertised, everyone in the fleet will want one.[/QUOTE]
Capt. Fran, Thank you for your response. The Easton Fungo and the Worth Lithium are quite familiar to me as well…you gotta keep that elbow straight and your head down. I very much appreciate your input. We intend to ask a suitable party to test our system and your advice on direct release is understood. This is a two step process similar to the aviation procedure which includes ice removal and anti-icing treatment. Would you have any specific suggestions for testing (fishing vessel/company that I may pursue?
New3M…That is a very interesting idea. I am looking for more information on icing conditions and situations on actic oil rigs and vessels. Do you know any specific companies that are noted for work in these environments?
I appreciate your input. The system we are working on is very similar to the aviation type of de-icing/anti-icing procedure. Our chemical researchers are confident the fluid we are deveolping is approved for direct release into the sea. Our system uses a heat exchanger to heat the water which is used in our high pressure spray. It may be possible to heat water to the fire main…Thanks again for your time and expertise!
New3M…That is a very interesting idea. I am looking for more information on icing conditions and situations on actic oil rigs and vessels. Do you know any specific companies that are noted for work in these environments?
I appreciate your input. The system we are working on is very similar to the aviation type of de-icing/anti-icing procedure. Our chemical researchers are confident the fluid we are deveolping is approved for direct release into the sea. Our system uses a heat exchanger to heat the water which is used in our high pressure spray. It may be possible to heat water to the fire main…Thanks again for your time and expertise!
[QUOTE=msweet;50850]I am looking for more information on icing conditions and situations on actic oil rigs and vessels.[/QUOTE]
You will find considerable research on icing to offshore structures in the Arctic at this link http://www.boemre.gov/tarsafety/ Really good stuff here concerning polar operations.
[QUOTE=c.captain;50852]You will find considerable research on icing to offshore structures in the Arctic at this link http://www.boemre.gov/tarsafety/ Really good stuff here concerning polar operations.
Happy reading[/QUOTE]
Thanks C.captain, I appreciate you reply. Have you personally experienced arctic operations? Can you give me any personal experiences?
Pardon me if I am addressing a 50 year maritime veteran or over-reaching my informational welcome but you never know who you are communicating with in the open forum. We are a company who believes we have a beneficial product for deicing that is acceptable to all environmental regulations
Once again thanks for the information on the website. Your consideration is much appreciated.
[QUOTE=msweet;50771]I have done some research on deicing procedures on arctic vessels. I was surprised to see, at least in the research I have done, how primitive the measure were for ice removal. I found that baseball bats, chainsaws and other hand tools were the primary form of removal.
Can anyone tell me of other procedures used? We are a manufacturer of high pressure rig washdown systems. We can also include deicing features on our systems which include anti-icing agents that are approved for direct release into the sea.
If anyone would like to comment on this matter it would be much appreciated. Where/Who would you suggest I contact to further pursue this effort?[/QUOTE]
We have a liquid deicing agent that is completely organic and contains no salts. It remains effectetive until dilution ration exceeds temperature requirements but is effective at 50% dilution to <50F. It has been used for deicing rigs in some of the most forbidding regions for years but has not been available outside of this stronghold until now. This industry holds some great secret ingredients that you can benefit from. It comes in powder form and is diluted in water to a percentage that meets the requirements of the temperature. The solution does not freeze but will absorb moisture from its environment naturally. The absorption rate is small but will change dilution rate… Therefore, it should be stored in a dry or covered area rather than left outside.
[QUOTE=msweet;50849]New3M…That is a very interesting idea. I am looking for more information on icing conditions and situations on actic oil rigs and vessels. Do you know any specific companies that are noted for work in these environments?
I appreciate your input. The system we are working on is very similar to the aviation type of de-icing/anti-icing procedure. Our chemical researchers are confident the fluid we are deveolping is approved for direct release into the sea. Our system uses a heat exchanger to heat the water which is used in our high pressure spray. It may be possible to heat water to the fire main…Thanks again for your time and expertise![/QUOTE]
On
the Charge air cooler subject, Just a mention for the company I work for Vestas
aircoil.
We manufactured the very first marine diesel engine scavenge air cooler (Charge
air Cooler) for B&W back in 1956. We still produce them today for large
engine builders. Water mist catchers too.
I know this is kind of an old thread. I’m a naval architect, and I’ve done projects on deicing of arctic vessels while I was pursuing graduate school. There has been a lot of research on deicing of vessels of late, and ABS and DNV have already brought about their “Winterization Guidelines” and notations relating to winterization. DNV offers the WINTERIZED and WINTERIZED ARCTIC notation. Some of the methods used / recommended include steam or thermal oil tracing and heating for essential deck machinery, piping and safety components - with care given to maintain redundancy in the heating arrangements. Good design for an arctic vessel involves choosing the right type of steel, choosing gaskets, wires, lashes which do not lose strength or property in arctic temperatures and providing deicing equipment (like steam hoses) at the correct locations. Winterization of the working areas and lifeboat stations are recommended. I’d suggest reading this guideline text from ABS:
Winterization Guidelines for Vessel Operating in Arctic Waters, Conachey, Legland, Wang and Baker, ABS Technical Papers, 2007
Apart from wooden mallets, the only other method I know of is using steam hoses.
Of course, you can use trace heating on decks, stairs and handrails, but for example we were told to avoid it where possible in one of our recent designs due to the fact that, based on operational experience, the system requires constant maintenance and usually breaks after only a few years of operation. Thus, it’s better to concentrate on “structural protection” during the design phase and then rely on the simplest possible means to deal with the ice that accumulates on board.
I’m not very fond of chemicals, so the only chemical means of dealing with the ice that I would use would probably be some kind of “ice-phobic” paint (similar to hydrphobic coatings) in the most critical areas. If that could be made abrasion-resistant, it could also be used to reduce ice resistance in the hull…
Yes, haha… baseball bats and ax handles have always been the solution offered by the office. We always shook our heads in October when a case of Sluggers showed up to every boat. Steel sledges worked best and if you knew how to land one you never damaged the paint job. Both options are Stone Age but the reality of 6" to 1’+ of ice made the decision making swift.
Its a matter of attitude. I think we really need to move beyond this skeptical view of de-icing technology. Of course, vessel owners will always try to stick to “tried and tested (stone age) methods” (to keep building cost down, in addition to not having a potential steam trace heating headache to worry, not to mention the additional documentation needed to attain and maintain “Winterization” notations) unless clients insist on Class approved Winterization notations. There already are technology (for example, steam trace heating systems) vendors and experts in the market. Northern Europe seems to be the leaders when it comes to embracing new technologies for arctic operations (not surprisingly). The US could take a cue from them. I’m sure there were a good deal of people who were reluctant to adopt DP in workboats when it was first being introduced in the market.
Tups, Nordica is a 20+ year old icebreaker. I think its a bad example to make a fair comparison. My point was the adaptation of technology here vis-a-vis Northern Europe.
I tried searching on google for Norwegian OSVs with DEICE notation, it wasn’t that hard to find one - MV Troms Pollux (2009) (DEICE-C)
I tried the same for American OSVs and I couldn’t find one. The MV Aiviq (2012) does not have a DE-ICE notation, even though it is an optional notation available with ABS.
Arch, that’s true. However, I would assume that if manual ice removal tools were not deemed sufficient, additional means and systems would have been retrofitted when the vessel was prepared for Shell’s charter off Alaska, a service where icing is probably a bigger problem than in escort icebreaking duty in the Northern Baltic Sea.
I quickly skimmed through DNV’s rules for DEICE notation. As with most recent rules, there isn’t much in it and “arrangements and methods for anti-icing and deicing will be considered for approval in each case”. How I understood that is something like “we don’t really know what is needed, but if you propose something reasonable, we’ll probably accept it”. In general, I see structural protection such as weather covers (see e.g. these ships) and “icing-resistant design” preferable over taking an existing design and installing enough trace heating on stairs and decks to get the class notation. Of course, certain systems and equipment such as lifeboat davits need to be duly winterized in all vessels, but in my eyes designing an “Arctic ready” offshore vessel would mean taking icing, cold ambient temperatures etc. into account already when developing the general layout of the vessel.
Anyway, I find the topic interesting and winterization/de-icing/anti-icing is definitely something I should study more, regarding both general design as well as individual components.
Regarding American OSVs, how many ships actually operate in regions where icing may occur? Aiviq and the few other support ships for Shell’s project (such as thisone) come to mind.
Hi, I am interested in this subject, I work for a company called vestas aircoil who design and manufacture charge air cooler for diesel engines. It is interesting to see that heat exchangers are used for all sorts of areas. The designs I normally look at use cold seawater to pass through the cooler which cools down the hot compressed air produced by the turbo. I am sure these coolers are also manufactured in 2 stages so that the water gets hot from the hot air which can be used on other areas.
[QUOTE=msweet;50849]New3M…That is a very interesting idea. I am looking for more information on icing conditions and situations on actic oil rigs and vessels. Do you know any specific companies that are noted for work in these environments?
I appreciate your input. The system we are working on is very similar to the aviation type of de-icing/anti-icing procedure. Our chemical researchers are confident the fluid we are deveolping is approved for direct release into the sea. Our system uses a heat exchanger to heat the water which is used in our high pressure spray. It may be possible to heat water to the fire main…Thanks again for your time and expertise![/QUOTE]
AIVIQ doesn’t really work all that much at anything, much less icing conditions.
The Arctic Alaska drilling season does not start until after icing conditions are over for the season, and it ends just as icing conditions begin for the winter. Thus far, it’s not much of an issue.
The Bering Sea fishing fleet experiences a lot of icing conditions all winter long.
The Great Lakes fleet, and even New England, also experience significant winter icing conditions.