Anyone know what the rotations/pay are for Crowley East Coast/GOM? ATB’s vs. Liner services or Contract towing? I know West Coast rates were decent but heard they were lower on the East Coast and some weren’t even time.
JAX/SJ contract was SIU in 07, pay sucked and the rotation was worse. Guys RAN to their cars at crew change so they didn’t get snagged for the next run. Food contract was ridiculous, some mini mart supplied it…crew brought their own meat/seafood and vegies…at least part of my time there was on a Robin boat…
I was contacted for work on the new DP Ocean class boats and can only say that the pay scales quoted were 30% below GoM averages and Crowley even admitted being low but tried the old shoe of “how safe they are” and how that makes the shit pay worth it. For requiring men to have DP certs and towing endorsements…they should pay MORE not LESS!
[QUOTE=c.captain;105187]I was contacted for work on the new DP Ocean class boats and can only say that the pay scales quoted were 30% below GoM averages and Crowley even admitted being low but tried the old shoe of “how safe they are” and how that makes the shit pay worth it. For requiring men to have DP certs and towing endorsements…they should pay MORE not LESS![/QUOTE]
Yup, Much agreed on the pay rates. What kinda daily did that work out to though and what were rotations? Already far below GOM DP rates where I’m at. Anyone know the ATB rotations??
I don’t care about the lower pay for a year or so, for now I mostly want DP seatime so I can get my DP certificate. How is Crowley at actually providing DP seatime? DP training? Do they keep their promises in this regard?
Still trying to figure out why the fuck a tug needs a DP system, much less a DP 2 system.
Is it just simply a case of going to the client seeing what they think they need and building it and dam the reality of what they really need?
Workboat interviewed Tom Crowley and asked that question. As I recall, he said that clients in the oil patch had specified a requirement for DP capable tugs.
I know assistants on the west coast make ~515 and rotation is 45/45
I’d kill for a west coast harbor gig with Crowley. Seems great from all the Crowley guys I’ve talked to.
[QUOTE=Dkm;105197]Yup, Much agreed on the pay rates. What kinda daily did that work out to though and what were rotations? Already far below GOM DP rates where I’m at. Anyone know the ATB rotations??[/QUOTE]
Hey there Shipmates. I am an A/B Tankerman on one of the 650 ATB’s with Crowley. It is not that bad of a gig. There is NO DP, so if you are looking to do that (like myself) then that is NOT the place to be. I am in the process up getting my Unlimited Third mates Lic. I plan on getting my DP and heading to the patch. The Tankerman pay is currently $440 a day. It is an SIU contract. Please let it be known that I am not pro or con union. I think they all have a place. It is just where I ended up. It is not a bad gig. 28 on, 28 off. The new 750’s are 45 & 45. Hit me up with anymore info you may want.
ALOHA!!!
Thanks Sailormatt. Good to hear from someone that’s actually working there. Are the East Coast boats SIU top to bottom or are some MM&P? Do you know if they’re looking for people on ATB’s or just the wire boats? Heard that you don’t get even time on the PR/Jax runs. Thanks again for the info.
Hey Shipmates,
To answer some more questions, ALL of the 650 and 750 class ATB’s are SIU top to bottom. it IS ALL even time. Sometime you do need to stay on a bit longer, but it is even time. 650’s are 28 and 28, and the three 750’s are 45 and 45. Any thing else I can help out with, just let me know.
[QUOTE=sailormatt;105597]Hey Shipmates,
To answer some more questions, ALL of the 650 and 750 class ATB’s are SIU top to bottom. it IS ALL even time. Sometime you do need to stay on a bit longer, but it is even time. 650’s are 28 and 28, and the three 750’s are 45 and 45. Any thing else I can help out with, just let me know.[/QUOTE]
This is all correct information. If anyone has any questions about the 750’s crewing, rotation, pay scale, message me and I can answer them. I was one of the lucky ones that came from the steamships as an AMO member,and sailed as 3rd and then 2nd engineer on the ATB Legacy/750-1. While not GOM wages, the pay is decent, the crews are good people (on the Legacy and Liberty at least), and the run to either Tampa or Port Everglades means you are out of cell reception a max of 54 hours from Southwest Pass. These boats pretty much run to the same two ports all the time. It’s really not a bad gig at all, if you can look past the SIU union thing.
I don’t have too much info on the ATB’s, but from what I’ve heard it is where you want to be if you are working for Crowley. As you know “One Crowley” is actually made up of the office(who are “Crowley” employees, and account for 100% of the people receiving good benefits and the employee owned company, so heavily boasted on their website), then there are the mariners. On the west coast, most deck officers are through the MM&P-Inland union, minus the harbor tugs which work San Pedro, which are of course SIU (entire crew). Im not too familiar with unlicensed on the west coast, but I’m pretty positive most are with the Inland Boatman’s Union. On the East Coast/Lake Charles everyone is with the SIU. Pay and Benefits for both Union’s are below average at best. Most of my experience is within the wire boat divisions and am most familiar with the pay scale’s. On the Jax-SJ run the pay is as follows: Capt appx 500 per day, C/M-appx 380, 2/M- 328, A/B-270 plus OT, OS-appx 210 plus OT. Lake Charles is a whole different story because there is actually a clause in the contract paying a little extra because of the nature of the work. Not to mention the way people are payed based on DP days, etc. If you are on the Ocean class boat’s, the pay is a little higher unless you are using the DP system. A DP day is significantly higher, but idk when a DP-1 system on a tug will ever be utilized? Basically the Ocean class boats pay the same as the line pull between Jax-SJ.
As far as the rotations on the boats, the Jax-SJ are all 6 weeks on 3 weeks off. This is based on 3 trips between Jacksonville and San Juan. If the weather picks, up this can easily turn into 7 weeks on. For the most part the run isn’t too bad, but weather is very hit or miss. You may see nothing more than 4 foot seas, but could spend the entire trip in 20 footers! Hurricanes and tropical storms may force you to run Old Bahama Channel or the Providence Channels-prolonging the trip. One positive part of the schedule unlike the MM&P counterparts, the SIU have 100% travel covered.
If you are looking for a place to advance fast and can handle a 2 for 1 schedule the line pull between Jax-SJ is a good place to be. They are loosing captain’s, mate’s and engineers by the day. If you are looking for quality of life in schedule, living quarters, food, etc look ATB’s or West Coast. If you are looking for money, well look at another company because that company will pay an AB more than a Mate and a Mate more than a Crowley Captain. Same deal for the engineering department. Overall I would not recommend working here, but it is a solid pay-check! Oh yeah and make sure you check your pay check because sometimes they make “mistakes” while you are out at sea!
I don’t have too much info on the ATB’s, but from what I’ve heard it is where you want to be if you are working for Crowley. As you know “One Crowley” is actually made up of the office(who are “Crowley” employees, and account for 100% of the people receiving good benefits and the employee owned company, so heavily boasted on their website), then there are the mariners. On the west coast, most deck officers are through the MM&P-Inland union, minus the harbor tugs which work San Pedro, which are of course SIU (entire crew). Im not too familiar with unlicensed on the west coast, but I’m pretty positive most are with the Inland Boatman’s Union. On the East Coast/Lake Charles everyone is with the SIU. Pay and Benefits for both Union’s are below average at best. Most of my experience is within the wire boat divisions and am most familiar with the pay scale’s. On the Jax-SJ run the pay is as follows: Capt appx 500 per day, C/M-appx 380, 2/M- 328, A/B-270 plus OT, OS-appx 210 plus OT. Lake Charles is a whole different story because there is actually a clause in the contract paying a little extra because of the nature of the work. Not to mention the way people are payed based on DP days, etc. If you are on the Ocean class boat’s, the pay is a little higher unless you are using the DP system. A DP day is significantly higher, but idk when a DP-1 system on a tug will ever be utilized? Basically the Ocean class boats pay the same as the line pull between Jax-SJ.
As far as the rotations on the boats, the Jax-SJ are all 6 weeks on 3 weeks off. This is based on 3 trips between Jacksonville and San Juan. If the weather picks, up this can easily turn into 7 weeks on. For the most part the run isn’t too bad, but weather is very hit or miss. You may see nothing more than 4 foot seas, but could spend the entire trip in 20 footers! Hurricanes and tropical storms may force you to run Old Bahama Channel or the Providence Channels-prolonging the trip. One positive part of the schedule unlike the MM&P counterparts, the SIU have 100% travel covered.
If you are looking for a place to advance fast and can handle a 2 for 1 schedule the line pull between Jax-SJ is a good place to be. They are loosing captain’s, mate’s and engineers by the day. If you are looking for quality of life in schedule, living quarters, food, etc look ATB’s or West Coast. If you are looking for money, well look at another company because that company will pay an AB more than a Mate and a Mate more than a Crowley Captain. Same deal for the engineering department. Overall I would not recommend working here, but it is a solid pay-check! Oh yeah and make sure you check your pay check because sometimes they make “mistakes” while you are out at sea!
[QUOTE=jimbo44;106652]I don’t have too much info on the ATB’s, but from what I’ve heard it is where you want to be if you are working for Crowley. As you know “One Crowley” is actually made up of the office(who are “Crowley” employees, and account for 100% of the people receiving good benefits and the employee owned company, so heavily boasted on their website), then there are the mariners. On the west coast, most deck officers are through the MM&P-Inland union, minus the harbor tugs which work San Pedro, which are of course SIU (entire crew). Im not too familiar with unlicensed on the west coast, but I’m pretty positive most are with the Inland Boatman’s Union. On the East Coast/Lake Charles everyone is with the SIU. Pay and Benefits for both Union’s are below average at best. Most of my experience is within the wire boat divisions and am most familiar with the pay scale’s. On the Jax-SJ run the pay is as follows: Capt appx 500 per day, C/M-appx 380, 2/M- 328, A/B-270 plus OT, OS-appx 210 plus OT. Lake Charles is a whole different story because there is actually a clause in the contract paying a little extra because of the nature of the work. Not to mention the way people are payed based on DP days, etc. If you are on the Ocean class boat’s, the pay is a little higher unless you are using the DP system. A DP day is significantly higher, but idk when a DP-1 system on a tug will ever be utilized? Basically the Ocean class boats pay the same as the line pull between Jax-SJ.
As far as the rotations on the boats, the Jax-SJ are all 6 weeks on 3 weeks off. This is based on 3 trips between Jacksonville and San Juan. If the weather picks, up this can easily turn into 7 weeks on. For the most part the run isn’t too bad, but weather is very hit or miss. You may see nothing more than 4 foot seas, but could spend the entire trip in 20 footers! Hurricanes and tropical storms may force you to run Old Bahama Channel or the Providence Channels-prolonging the trip. One positive part of the schedule unlike the MM&P counterparts, the SIU have 100% travel covered.
If you are looking for a place to advance fast and can handle a 2 for 1 schedule the line pull between Jax-SJ is a good place to be. They are loosing captain’s, mate’s and engineers by the day. If you are looking for quality of life in schedule, living quarters, food, etc look ATB’s or West Coast. If you are looking for money, well look at another company because that company will pay an AB more than a Mate and a Mate more than a Crowley Captain. Same deal for the engineering department. Overall I would not recommend working here, but it is a solid pay-check! Oh yeah and make sure you check your pay check because sometimes they make “mistakes” while you are out at sea![/QUOTE]
Now that is a pretty accurate description. I have worked both the Jacksonville to SJ and Phili to San Juan run. The only thing I can add is…
The liner service, which is the container runs to San Juan, are low skill runs, and in truth that is what kind of Mariners they have there. I meet some good boat handlers there, but they were rare. Most of the Captains could only do this specific run, and were confused if you asked them to do anything different or out of the ordinary
The liner run is mostly three watch boat for the officers, and the experience or skill level for the C/M and 2nd mate was awful. It was a rare C/M or 2nd that could take the tug, light boat down to the fuel dock.
If you were a deck officer that did not like handling the boat, someone that just wanted to go Sea buoy to Sea buoy then the liner service was for you. My understanding is on the Lake Charles boats, things are a bit different, more boat handling, more overall skill.
On the Liner service, I did not find the living conditions all that good, and the constant “only do things exactly the Crowley way” with the exact specific, fill it out only this way paperwork, very boring and restrictive.
On officer pay, those number listed above should give you an idea, Crowley pays for the skills they need. And on the liner run, that is not a lot of skill.
Here is something to think about; one of our hands just got his mates ticket, went to oilfield and is making more than Crowley’s Captain pay, and that is with a ink wet license. There is a reason Crowley is looking hard for officers.
On the other hand…if you want job security, I would say Crowley Liner service is the place to be, just be sure you can handle the mind numbing, no thinking allowed, routine
Ocean31
[QUOTE=Ocean31;106836]Now that is a pretty accurate description. I have worked both the Jacksonville to SJ and Phili to San Juan run. The only thing I can add is…
The liner service, which is the container runs to San Juan, are low skill runs, and in truth that is what kind of Mariners they have there. I meet some good boat handlers there, but they were rare. Most of the Captains could only do this specific run, and were confused if you asked them to do anything different or out of the ordinary
The liner run is mostly three watch boat for the officers, and the experience or skill level for the C/M and 2nd mate was awful. It was a rare C/M or 2nd that could take the tug, light boat down to the fuel dock.
If you were a deck officer that did not like handling the boat, someone that just wanted to go Sea buoy to Sea buoy then the liner service was for you. My understanding is on the Lake Charles boats, things are a bit different, more boat handling, more overall skill.
On the Liner service, I did not find the living conditions all that good, and the constant “only do things exactly the Crowley way” with the exact specific, fill it out only this way paperwork, very boring and restrictive.
On officer pay, those number listed above should give you an idea, Crowley pays for the skills they need. And on the liner run, that is not a lot of skill.
Here is something to think about; one of our hands just got his mates ticket, went to oilfield and is making more than Crowley’s Captain pay, and that is with a ink wet license. There is a reason Crowley is looking hard for officers.
On the other hand…if you want job security, I would say Crowley Liner service is the place to be, just be sure you can handle the mind numbing, no thinking allowed, routine
Ocean31[/QUOTE
REPLY
Now these are some of the best and most informative posts on a meaningful topic — PAY and working conditions at a major company — that I have seen in awhile. Thank you.
I think the main reason they are hurting for people so bad is mainly the schedule and then the pay. If you are going to be working 2 for 1, why not go somewhere where they actually pay you a competitive daily rate. I was able to get an equal time job as a paying 35k more a year! The union would argue that the benefits are better, but that is a load of crap. My health insurance is much better with a non-union company and they match a considerable amount towards my 401 k, which Crowley does not offer.
From my experience the Captain’s were very skilled at what they did. I think where the lack of skill is within the mates. They do not land the barges, or handle the boat in most cases. There are some that may be able to, but with this job they will never be given the opportunity to do so. Plus why would there be any skilled mates, when very few stay more than a year or two. Making 328 per day is less than Hos, Harvey gulf, and very similar to what Chouest pays an AB.
On a positive note, the company does a good job making sure the boat gets worked on, but this is used to prolong the much needed ship yard visits. When you get to Jax, there are several mechanics and other workers that will show up and work on the engines, ac, etc. The guys that run the electronics are awesome and are very helpful for being so short-staffed! Mark is the quasi- port engineer and if he is in charge of your boat he will get you what you need.
The most frustrating part of the job is actually when the union is negotiating your contract. Crowley basically owns the union and people that are supposed to be fighting for you are urging the “brotherhood” to take a 2% raise. There was this goofball named Archie who would come down to the boat and basically read a script. When I realized this idiot, who struggled speaking his native tongue was my representation, it was a serious eye-opener.
[QUOTE=tugsailor;106854]
Now these are some of the best and most informative posts on a meaningful topic — PAY and working conditions at a major company — that I have seen in awhile. Thank you.[/QUOTE]
Yeah people not afraid to talk dollars and cents! Even if its not exact. I think a lot of oilpatch folks are afraid to talk realizing they may be missing out on $5 a day elsewhere. I am alright with making way less than i “could” for circumstances outlined in another thread. I prefer to not discuss exactly where I work and therefore I don’t chime in on the exact rates, but could approximate. Reckon its supposed to be confidential in the omsa mafia.
[QUOTE=z-drive;106903]Yeah people not afraid to talk dollars and cents! Even if its not exact. I think a lot of oilpatch folks are afraid to talk realizing they may be missing out on $5 a day elsewhere. I am alright with making way less than i “could” for circumstances outlined in another thread. I prefer to not discuss exactly where I work and therefore I don’t chime in on the exact rates, but could approximate. Reckon its supposed to be confidential in the omsa mafia.[/QUOTE]
It is all in a cycle. You just have to know what you are getting yourself into when you
go to the oilfield.
I went back out to the oilfield in 2001, I remember tellingmy family we had to put
money away, because layoffs were common, just a fact oflife. Here is a breakdown of
the cycle as I experienced it. Please! the months/exact year may be a different for you,
this is just to showhow the cycle goes both for the oilfield and non oilfields boats. Mind
you boats, not deep water big ship mariners.
In 2001 Companiesstill hiring, actually hiring hard even right after the 9/11 attack,
late 2001 Three months later (thereabout) stock market crashes oil drops to below 16
a barrel, gasoline at99 cents a gallon, Layoffs rampant. Things are hard for nearly two
years
Oilfield is slowly coming back, pay is stagnate, but layoffsare over with. Oil gets above
23 a barrel, 2003
Some payraises, not a lot, but things are looking brighter. Stockmarket has regained most
losses 2004
Decent payraises, New Master of Tow regulations well inplace. OSV companies
keeping pay up not to lose mariners to the tugs, Many mariners whom left the oilfield in
2001 are starting to come back, and the first cracks in thejob openings for non oilfield
jobs are starting toappear. 2006
Jobs are wide open, two arms, two legs and a license, you got a job. Bigger non oilfield
companies like Moran. Penn and so on are hiring based upon resume and license. No
longer is it a caseof whom you know. 2007
Beginning of 2008, jobs are still wide open, however as the year progress, there is signs
things are beginning to slow down. The market is flooded with new marinerstrying to
get in.
End of 2008, Marketcrashes. Hiring stops, pretty welleverywhere.
Beginning of 2009, Layoffs rampant in oilfield, Marinerstrying to get back to non
oilfield jobs.
2009 through 2011. Stagnatewages, jobs scarce.
2011 through 2012. Oilfield begins to come back, stock market has regained most losses
jobs available and as2012 progresses pay begins to rise for high demand jobs such as
DP (see 2005/06 effect of MOT requirements)
2012 Jobs widely availablefor competent experienced mariners. ManyMariners that got
jobs on non oilfieldcompanies are starting to come back to the oilfield because of 100 to
150 dollar a day pay difference.
Late 2012, Loss of Mariners to oilfield jobs beginning toaffect non oilfield jobs. Prime
and first example is Crowley, since they are one of theworse paying jobs.
Okay……so now what happens, For an unknown period of time, pay will continue to
increase in the oilfield and jobs will be available. As this trend continues, jobs in non
oilfield companieswill become available. However pay increasesin non oilfield jobs
will not occur until the trend in loss of mariners to the oilfieldhas gone on for years.
Remember, no company increases pay until they cannotget hands. Each company is
different on how bad it is has to get, and for how long theywill hire poor quality mariners
at existing wages. Only after they (the companies) have no choice, will they increase
pay.
SO……it is kind of like playing the stock market, you buy when everyone is selling. Sell
when everyone else isbuying. You go now to the oilfield andmake your day rate. But
watch the non oilfield jobs. Especially a company you always wanted to work at such as
Moran/Penn/Reinhauer. When the next cycle occurs, you will have alreadymoved
back to non oilfield jobs where layoffs are rare. You will lose some money on pay when
you move back, but the job security is there. And if job security is the most important
thing to you, you can go now to the worst paying nonoilfield jobs such as Crowley liner
service. But rememberone thing, if you are older, (late 40sand on) it is much harder to
make the jumps. So……you may want to keep that in mind and choose job security over
pay scale
As the commercial on TV says, My experience, results may vary. No guarantee this
[FONT=“Times New Roman”] product worksfor everyone……
Ocean31[/FONT]