Is it just me or does it seem like the classes that are being put in the must have category getting out of hand. I was just advised today from the CG that I need a leadership an management class by the end of 2016 to keep my international stuff good. When is it going to end, pretty soon every 5 years there are going to be so many refresher classes that you need a renewal is going to run a ton of money. Just venting lol but looking for feed back on this.
Some employers are reimbursing for these ‘gap’ classes.
My biggest concern is re-arranging my hitch to make a class. Actually first and foremost to being concerned about that I’m more concerned about not getting laid off…and I’m not in the GOM.
I last took some classes for upgrading back in 2010/11. Seems like yesterday.
The instructor at the time was saying how the CG and others are turning the field into true professional mariners with continuing education, etc. No different than other professional fields such as physicians or nursing.
[QUOTE=mouse4x4;158310]Is it just me or does it seem like the classes that are being put in the must have category getting out of hand. I was just advised today from the CG that I need a leadership an management class by the end of 2016 to keep my international stuff good. When is it going to end, pretty soon every 5 years there are going to be so many refresher classes that you need a renewal is going to run a ton of money. Just venting lol but looking for feed back on this.[/QUOTE]
See if your company will reimburse you for them. My main employer told me they will pay for mine. If they won’t pay for yours, and you pay your own way, save your receipts.
I ran up some serious credit card debt for my first set of classes just so I could go to work. That layout was deductable on my taxes. Now, if my employer wants to pay for em, I say let em.
Is it a racket? Well, all you have to do is look at how the schools are expanding and modernizing and that’ll tell you there’s big money in STCW.
It is a racket. And its getting out of hand. With all of the super expensive classes we have to take, often way out of town, its going to seriously cut into what little bit of time most of us get off. Not all companies will pay for schooling, my company wont pay for classes dealing with renewals, that alone looks like its going to start costing thousands of dollars.
Anyone wanting to come up through the ranks now will be looking at thousands and many weeks to fulfill all these classes. Thank God we have in-house training for all of these classes we need.
We just need to be able to recover the cost of these courses through higher day rates. Hopefully, the cost of these courses will restrict the excess number of people trying to come up too quickly.
So far it’s taken me two years and over $10k of classes, travel and extra time off to prepare to apply for my 500 ton upgrade and I know this is just the beginning. At the moment I’m going as fast as money will allow and hoping for a return on the investment in new experiences, pay and personal satisfaction. I’m hoping the pay will come through too because if I have to keep taking classes at this pace, I’ll never be home and working just to maintain my license, which is not the goal. I think a lot of it is a racket, especially now when schools are growing exponentially and are churning out certificates to pay for their growth.
[QUOTE=tugsailor;158396]We just need to be able to recover the cost of these courses through higher day rates. Hopefully, the cost of these courses will restrict the excess number of people trying to come up too quickly.[/QUOTE]
In theory day rates should increase. In practice this will favor mariners with the wherewithal to work low wage jobs long enough till they upgrade and move on to higher pay, pilots job etc. Expect to see more school grads and fewer hawserpipers.
It’s a big hardship if one’s employer, or union, isn’t helping out with getting the classes done. Then the next hurdle is scheduling. For example, for engineers, the ERM and MEECE classes aren’t offered everywhere…yet. So I am assuming those classes are booked months in advance. I’m on the west coast and for me to make a trip back east is going to take some serious planning.
It’s gotten to the nearly ludicrous with all the classes and continuing training we need to have. Some of it I can understand, as times change and technology advances, we do have to keep up. A lot of it seems to be time-wasting nonsense, though. Take, for example, the C/M-Master upgrade courses that were foisted upon us a little over ten years ago. Most of those courses were simply warmed-over versions of training and classes I’d already had from school. Did I really need to sit in a class for a week to figure out that, hey, maybe it’s not the brightest idea to sail directly into the teeth of a super-typhoon?
I could even understand the extra courses and training if it did something to weed out the non-hackers out there, but my experience was always that the courses tended to be taught to the “lowest common denominator”. You had to actually [I]try[/I] to fail one of these courses–if you had a pulse, showed up every day, and had at least three functioning brain cells, you were almost guaranteed to pass. It’s almost become the maritime version of diploma mills.
I’m lucky enough that, as a benefit of my union membership, I can take required courses for free. Well, almost free–I’ve still got to pay for travel, and let’s not forget the fact that these courses are taking away from the hard-earned vacation time. If I’m going to be spending large amounts of my vacation time away from home anyway taking these nonsense classes, then I may just as well look at moving shoreside so at least I’ve got a chance at being home weekends.
[QUOTE=Ctony;158415]It’s a big hardship if one’s employer, or union, isn’t helping out with getting the classes done. Then the next hurdle is scheduling. For example, for engineers, the ERM and MEECE classes aren’t offered everywhere…yet. So I am assuming those classes are booked months in advance. I’m on the west coast and for me to make a trip back east is going to take some serious planning.[/QUOTE]
Check out MITAGS Baltimore, they are now offering those and the LMS course as well.
Oopps read past your west coast reference but I do see they have an affiliation with PMI in Seattle, maybe they would offer same?
I got my first license in 1975. This was before firefighting was required. A few years later, it was required for your original license only. I advanced to Chief Motor and GT without having to take the course. Finally took it when it was required for STCW.
When the required courses kicked in, the company and SIU worked out a sched to combine our annual safety seminars and STCW classes. Worked out well and we were paid our base wage to attend.
It def feels like for every class you take there are 3 more added a month later that are needed I don’t mind the initial class but all this refresher class stuff is going to get expensive quick.
[QUOTE=mouse4x4;158310]Is it just me or does it seem like the classes that are being put in the must have category getting out of hand. I was just advised today from the CG that I need a leadership an management class by the end of 2016 to keep my international stuff good. When is it going to end, pretty soon every 5 years there are going to be so many refresher classes that you need a renewal is going to run a ton of money. Just venting lol but looking for feed back on this.[/QUOTE]
This is not a new announcement, nor is it’s official arrival at our doorstep a surprise. USCG has been regularly making announcements advising American mariners holding STCWs of the need for medical certs, classes required by STCW 2010, etc. no later than 12/31/2016, etc.
LMS Mgmt Level class has been public knowledge for a year or more now. The first schools to offer it (LMS Mgmt Level) have been doing so since last Sept or Oct, if not earlier.
Where have you been???
All these classes have created a job market for mariners that don’t want to go to sea any more. Yes it is a racket. How much time is wasted in these classes? How much do we actually learn? I would guesstimate that over 95% of the time in all these classes combined is wasted. I know regulatory will say something like “You get out of it what you put into it” but that is kum bay ya hand holding BS. Granted there are some classes that we may learn more than others but the real purpose of the class is to get the certificate that you need to keep your job.
I seem to remember, back when they came up with all the C/M and Master upgrade courses, there was some brief talk that the various academies were going to try to conduct the assessments and give those certificates, the theory being that they were already teaching all that stuff. That talk died away very quickly, and I’m not sure why–probably some arcane requirement that those courses be taken while holding a license. A lot of mariners are already looking to upgrade to C/M within a couple years, so basically within a fairly short time of graduation, oh, here we go again, a week long, warmed-over version of what I just got through learning.
What I really want to know, though, is how much of a difference is all this extra training making? Is it making us noticeably more skilled, more able overall? Am I suddenly a better leader because I took some week-long course? The only real effect might be a thinning of the herd, weeding out those who don’t really want to make a career at sea, but even that effect may be muted as all the extra coursework and training becomes the new norm.
[QUOTE=RespectMyAuthority;158638]All these classes have created a job market for mariners that don’t want to go to sea any more. Yes it is a racket. How much time is wasted in these classes? How much do we actually learn? I would guesstimate that over 95% of the time in all these classes combined is wasted. I know regulatory will say something like “You get out of it what you put into it” but that is kum bay ya hand holding BS. Granted there are some classes that we may learn more than others but the real purpose of the class is to get the certificate that you need to keep your job.[/QUOTE]
I enjoyed some of the classes and learned…but much of the time it’s one sea story after another…and we’re paying for this?
At least the continuing ed courses required of nurses and teachers seem to be of some substance. Many are free or low cost, too.
Perhaps one day those options will present themselves, for some subjects.
[QUOTE=catherder;158666]I enjoyed some of the classes and learned…but much of the time it’s one sea story after another…and we’re paying for this?
At least the continuing ed courses required of nurses and teachers seem to be of some substance. Many are free or low cost, too.
Perhaps one day those options will present themselves, for some subjects.[/QUOTE]
Don’t most other professions continue paying people their regular pay while they’re in continuing education classes? Also, in many places, a teacher who goes and gets a master’s degree is rewarded in the form of higher pay, and I’m sure it’s similar in many other professions.
Meanwhile, mariners are paying big money (or at the very least taking MORE time away from home) to take courses just to keep the jobs we already have, and it’s fairly rare that a company is going to pay regular pay during those courses. Which would maybe be tolerable if more and more classes and assessments didn’t keep getting dropped on us.
It is ridiculous for companies to expect mariners to absorb all these extra costs. These costs need to be passed on to the company in one way or another. But as I have been saying for 30 years, there is a glut of mariners available. I see more and more mariners saying: screw it, I’m not going to spend all my time and money on these courses, many of which I do not actually need for the tugs that I’m working on now. Eventually, there will be a better balance between supply and demand for STCW compliant mariners, and the cost of these courses will be offset by better day rates. I predict that this will happen about one year after I retire.