[QUOTE=tugsailor;158673]It is ridiculous for companies to expect mariners to absorb all these extra costs. These costs need to be passed on to the company in one way or another. But as I have been saying for 30 years, there is a glut of mariners available. I see more and more mariners saying: screw it, I’m not going to spend all my time and money on these courses, many of which I do not actually need for the tugs that I’m working on now. Eventually, there will be a better balance between supply and demand for STCW compliant mariners, and the cost of these courses will be offset by better day rates. I predict that this will happen about one year after I retire.[/QUOTE]
I’m hoping that come 2017 there will be a major shortage of STCW compliant mariners, especially in the tug industry, HOWEVER, I am concerned the CG will issue some BS extension like they did with the VPDSD endorsement rewarding the stragglers. I’m hoping Joe Boss decides to send everyone in the company on their dime to their school for Leadership etc. across the board to make scheduling it easier, but who knows. That’s why I’m going to hold out a few more months.
I’m curious what happens if your SCTCW becomes invalid after that point by not meeting gap closing items, how easy will it be to get it back? Not an issue I will deal with personally, but hopefully its a nightmare the slackers will have to deal with.
[QUOTE=z-drive;158686]I’m hoping that come 2017 there will be a major shortage of STCW compliant mariners, especially in the tug industry, HOWEVER, I am concerned the CG will issue some BS extension like they did with the VPDSD endorsement rewarding the stragglers. I’m hoping Joe Boss decides to send everyone in the company on their dime to their school for Leadership etc. across the board to make scheduling it easier, but who knows. That’s why I’m going to hold out a few more months.
I’m curious what happens if your SCTCW becomes invalid after that point by not meeting gap closing items, how easy will it be to get it back? Not an issue I will deal with personally, but hopefully its a nightmare the slackers will have to deal with.[/QUOTE]
From what I understand from reading (take that for what it’s worth), once you complete the gap-closers, you are good to go again.
I have scheduled mine for late this year which is a year prior to the due date.
On the topic, has anyone come across any outfits that are offering the Engineering gap closing classes contiguously? It could be a major cost savings if you could do all 3 classes back to back.
There are a lot of guys now with 2nd mate unlimited, master 1600, and master of towing, who have been sailing on 199 GRT tugs for many years. They have never taken any STCW courses. They have no clue that their “big licenses” (should they ever want to sail on them) are no longer valid beyond the sea bouy. Nor do they have any idea how much time and money they would have to spend on STCW courses in order to sail again on those “big licenses.”
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[QUOTE=catherder;158688]From what I understand from reading (take that for what it’s worth), once you complete the gap-closers, you are good to go again.
I have scheduled mine for late this year which is a year prior to the due date.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=z-drive;158686]…I’m curious what happens if your SCTCW becomes invalid after that point by not meeting gap closing items, how easy will it be to get it back? Not an issue I will deal with personally, but hopefully its a nightmare the slackers will have to deal with.[/QUOTE]
If you get the “not valid after December 31, 2016” limitation for not meeting any of the new requirements, you can remove that limitation at any time (even after the cut-off date) by taking the course or doing the assessments. If you wait until you renew after January 1, 2017, you will also have the new renewal requirements that start with the first renewal after December 31, 2016.
[QUOTE=jdcavo;158730] by taking the course or doing the assessments. .[/QUOTE]
Mr. Cavo,
I have been registered for the one day Leadership and Teamworking skills class at MPT In Ft. Lauderdale for a month now. After seeing mention of the assessments, I went through the NVIC and Printed out the assessments in Enclosure (3) and was planning to do them aboard the vessel next week. I called MPT to cancel my course and they hammered me for 10 minutes on the phone that I couldn’t do assessments, that I needed to take the class and not to drop the class. Are they just trying to get my $300 bucks and misleading people?
So I get that the classes are a PIA but lets look at this differently. One of the reasons we make the big money that we do is due to the fact that it takes a lot of work to get and keep a license that commands big money. If it was easy then wages would be far less. The more regulation, classes, medical requirements and bull shit you have to go through, the less people willing to do it. This equals higher wages. If you are near the end of your career, you probably hate this, if you are not, look at it as job security.
By the Way, there are a whole bunch of officers that could use the leadership and team building class, hopefully you know who you are.
[QUOTE=PaddyWest2012;158744]What’s the best way to go about finding out what exactly we’re missing if we have “Not Valid After December 31st, 2016” printed on our license?[/QUOTE]
I called the NMC an asked them they had the list handy.
[QUOTE=PaddyWest2012;158744]What’s the best way to go about finding out what exactly we’re missing if we have “Not Valid After December 31st, 2016” printed on our license?[/QUOTE]
It depends on what you hold:
OICNW: Leadership and Teamwork Skills
Master or Chief Mate: Leadership and Managerial Skills
OICEW: Leadership and Teamwork Skills and/or Engineroom Resouirce Management
Chief Engineer or Second Engineer Officer: Leadership and Managerial Skills and/or Engineroom Resource Management and/or Management of Electrical and Electronic Comntrol Equipment
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[QUOTE=GLMASailor;158752]Mr. Cavo,
I have been registered for the one day Leadership and Teamworking skills class at MPT In Ft. Lauderdale for a month now. After seeing mention of the assessments, I went through the NVIC and Printed out the assessments in Enclosure (3) and was planning to do them aboard the vessel next week. I called MPT to cancel my course and they hammered me for 10 minutes on the phone that I couldn’t do assessments, that I needed to take the class and not to drop the class. Are they just trying to get my $300 bucks and misleading people?[/QUOTE]
Look at the CFR for STCW endorsements as Master, and for OICNW. For Master it specifically says you need approved training. For OICNW, it says “meet the standard of competence…” The language difference is intentional. Whenever we use "meet the standard of competence… " it means assessment.
OICNW: Leadership and Teamwork Skills
Master or Chief Mate: Leadership and Managerial Skills
OICEW: Leadership and Teamwork Skills and/or Engineroom Resouirce Management
Chief Engineer or Second Engineer Officer: Leadership and Managerial Skills and/or Engineroom Resource Management and/or Management of Electrical and Electronic Comntrol Equipment
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Look at the CFR for STCW endorsements as Master, and for OICNW. For Master it specifically says you need approved training. For OICNW, it says “meet the standard of competence…” The language difference is intentional. Whenever we use "meet the standard of competence… " it means assessment.
I doubt they are misleading anyone intentionally.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the quick reply. I currently only hold OICNW, but will be upgrading to 2nd Mate Unlimited and 1600 Master after this next hitch. I am scheduled to take the Leadership and Managerial skills at another school and was told by MPT that that I needed the Leadership & Teamworking skills class to cover the OICNW. I am going to do the assessments and submit them with my upgrade and see what happens. No sense spending money on flights, hotel, rental car, and class out of my own pocket if I don’t need to.
[QUOTE=GLMASailor;158764]Thanks for the quick reply. I currently only hold OICNW, but will be upgrading to 2nd Mate Unlimited and 1600 Master after this next hitch. I am scheduled to take the Leadership and Managerial skills at another school and was told by MPT that that I needed the Leadership & Teamworking skills class to cover the OICNW. I am going to do the assessments and submit them with my upgrade and see what happens. No sense spending money on flights, hotel, rental car, and class out of my own pocket if I don’t need to.[/QUOTE]
It sounds like either MPT doesn’t know what they’re talking about or is intentionally misleading you. I’ve heard of schools doing that. I had one school convince a deckhand of mine on the tugs that you couldn’t go straight to 500 ton mate you had to go 100 ton to 200 ton to 500 ton, and so he had to take the classes to do that.
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[QUOTE=awulfclark;158668]Don’t most other professions continue paying people their regular pay while they’re in continuing education classes? Also, in many places, a teacher who goes and gets a master’s degree is rewarded in the form of higher pay, and I’m sure it’s similar in many other professions.[/QUOTE]
Sooner companies might pay people to attend classes but I’m not familiar with that practice.
We’re not talking about going back to school for a higher degree, either. Medical professions especially require you to aren’t a certain amount of hours of classes/seminars Port year to maintain your qualifications. These are weekend conferences and such and it’s a requirement of the job and usually unpaid. Sometimes the employer picks up transportation and/or registration costs.
yes, most people are paid salary too and continuing Ed is just part of the deal. Depends how they want to look at it whether or not they’re getting “paid” or not. Also I don’t see how a (technically) self employed physician or say attorney can get paid to go to a class.
[QUOTE=GLMASailor;158764]Thanks for the quick reply. I currently only hold OICNW, but will be upgrading to 2nd Mate Unlimited and 1600 Master after this next hitch. I am scheduled to take the Leadership and Managerial skills at another school and was told by MPT that that I needed the Leadership & Teamworking skills class to cover the OICNW. I am going to do the assessments and submit them with my upgrade and see what happens. No sense spending money on flights, hotel, rental car, and class out of my own pocket if I don’t need to.[/QUOTE]
If you have Master 1600, you need the Leradership and Managerial Skills course, and that should also cover the Leadership and Teamwork Skills requirement for OICNW. You shouldn’t need to do both. For Chief Mate and Master, assessments aren’t acceptable, you need a course.