And it pays better…
[QUOTE=Fraqrat;155649]And it pays better…[/QUOTE]
and it is specifically because of this that Joe Boss and his bayoo pals have managed to keep holding all the cards…if necessary pay bloodmoney to the serfs but always manage to keep control of them. The workers are whores for selling their rights away for that piece of silver but it really says alot that the Bosses are willing to pay premium in order to keep holding all the cards. That overarching control comes at a price but now we see that there is a limit to how much the Bosses will endure before they realize that they can take some of that bloodmoney away and won’t lose their control because they will still keep most of their people who 1.) don’t have anywhere else to go, 2.) will never give up the great money if they did or 3.) can’t retire because they are too young for social security and don’t have a pension to fall back on. Either way, the Bosses now are going to start taking back. Safety bonuses, travel pay, paid training, and 401k matching today but wages tomorrow (because that is all there will be left to take from). If you really still do not believe that Joe won’t cut your pay or get rid of you then you are living on one of the distant outer planets that is covered with frozen gas.
what I wonder is what would have happened if the Bosses had not thrown caution to the win in the last 10 years with pay but kept to the old maxim of just giving enough to live but not enough to feel full? If they hadn’t raised pay to where they did, would you all be singing the same song here today about what a swell guy Joe is? Would I be the same pariah here? It will be quite interesting to see in six months what y’all say to me if the price of oil is still in the toilet like today and more of you have become victim to Joe’s arbitrary whims?
Union or not it’s still Joe Boss’s company to run how he sees fit. Union or not boats are still getting tied up. So a little less dayrate and benefits beats sitting in the hall elbowing for union scraps. This is no different than when I shipped union in the early 90’s. Post gulf war there were 5 people for every job that was out there after all the sea lift ships were ROS’d. Vessels tied up, to many Mariners, not enough jobs. People losing their livelihoods and leaving the industry all together for lower paying less benefit jobs.
[QUOTE=Fraqrat;155653]Union or not it’s still Joe Boss’s company to run how he sees fit. Union or not boats are still getting tied up. So a little less dayrate and benefits beats sitting in the hall elbowing for union scraps. This is no different than when I shipped union in the early 90’s. Post gulf war there were 5 people for every job that was out there after all the sea lift ships were ROS’d. Vessels tied up, to many Mariners, not enough jobs. People losing their livelihoods and leaving the industry all together for lower paying less benefit jobs.[/QUOTE]
I think is has been said over and over that a union does not protect members against being laid off but does give them protection as to who gets laid off when and what they receive once they are. Also, you cannot tell me that a union would just stand by with their thumbs up their asses and let benefits promised to the workers be defacto cancelled overnight at the Bosses whim? HELL NO THEY WOULDN’T!
The difference with a union job is you usually don’t have to worry about getting shafted till contracts get renewed.
You’re right the union wouldn’t let benefits be changed around to save some money. The company would just tell everyone 200 people have to be laid off to offset the cost of the 401k match for the rest of you. Kinda hard to earn those benefits if you aren’t drawing a check at all.
[QUOTE=dncartersweatte1993;155568]“I just love it…the triumph of Joe Boss and famiglia! BWAHAHA!”
Why are you so against working in the gulf? If you have a line on something better, or even near equivalent please PM me. Seriously, I’m not stuck on the Gulf, I need work![/QUOTE]
If you’re in Alaska you should have a line on the work starting up there, no? It’s that time of year. Try the Highway. I can’t work for them, can’t do a 7 day rotation from the East Coast.
[QUOTE=z-drive;155612]You did get a pay cut! That shows how narrow minded some of you are, if you consider losing a 401k match as something other than a pay cut. Its money they are no longer paying you. Same goes for travel.[/QUOTE]
I am not narrow minded, you ASSumed something & made an ASS of yourself.
I do NOT participate in the companies 401(k), so NO I did not get a pay cut.
Plus I do not get travel pay anyway. Once again I am happy I did not get a pay cut!
So rather than take 6+% of what you make pre-tax, you just let joe boss keep it? 401ks aren’t ideal but not getting a match when available is foolish. What about at my company where joe boss kicks in a little extra and gives me %10 a year? Nah just let him keep it?
Regardless of your situation, those who DO participate ARE taking a pay cut!
[QUOTE=c.captain;155614]How narrow minded “some” of them are? How about “ALL” of them are down there? Never have I seen such a bunch completely beholden to Joe Boss’s “company line”! They literally will foam at the mouth saying what an awesome deal they are getting when they ain’t getting SHIT other than a paycheck. To love the Boss so much is to give him all the cards and leave none in your hand but these people can’t even see that labor/business is a high stakes game with winners and losers. We see now who the losers are because they threw in their cards decades ago. They did that because the Boss told them they had nothing to worry about, that they were “THE REASON THAT THIS COMPANY IS SO SUCCESSFUL” and that they were going to be showered with Ambrosia for their dedication and efforts. Now people like you and me see what they are really getting showered with and it doesn’t smell too nice, but I swear even now the GoM mariners think it is still the lovely food of the Gods! This thread only proves it even more than ever before. Joe Boss wins again…IDIOTIC FOOLS![/QUOTE]
You’re a curmudgeon.
Do you feel better about yourself by tearing down fellow mariners?
The reason you hate the GoM is that you could not do the job plain & simple.
Amazing. The thread went from ECO cutting pay to deciding which is worse, working for ECO or being a member of a union. Judging from the comments ECO and unions suck equally. Of course most commentators have never worked under a union contract or worked at Chouest. The sum total of the knowledge I got out of this thread is… ECO cut pay/benefits and needs to hire someone with English proficiency to proofread their letters to employees.
If I worked there and got shafted via a letter written by a moron I would be real disappointed.
That being said, everyone has been warned time and time again to bank money and believe nothing any of these companies tell you EVER. Without a mariners organization representing you together, each of you are just independent contractors with no contract. You are basically day labor. If you understand you are simply documented day labor and plan accordingly you will be happier and less surprised at what happens to you.
[QUOTE=tengineer1;155673]Of course most commentators have never worked under a union contract or worked at Chouest.[/QUOTE]
But yet some of us have. I’ve sailed Union… and I left that because ECO offered me TRIPLE what the union paid me as a mate on the crappy MSC contract tanker I worked on. It was a good bunch of folks I worked with, don’t get me wrong, but AMO didn’t put the money where their mouth was on the contract negotiations and we all suffered for it at OSI.
Am I bitter that Unions shafted me and my shipmates there, yes, probably equally as bitter as c.captain is towards “Joe Boss” for whatever reason. cough [I]NMU mouthpiece[/I] cough Am I upset about the 401k match? Of course, but I have job security, a good coordinator, a good manager, and I know that the few times that I’ve had to email GC, he actually reads them and responds, and things have gotten done. Is ECO perfect? No, but what company is? And what company in the gulf isn’t feeling a pinch right now?
I don’t “bleed orange and blue,” but I’m loyal to the company I choose (whatever it may be). I don’t bite the hand that feeds me. They’ve seen me through some of my rough times, and for that I’ll see them through this rough time. If that makes me a “bootlicker” then so be it, I’ve been called a “scab” and worse in the past by some SIU thugs too, but I got a paycheck, and I fed my family. If it’s what I wanted, at least I could leave the company and not be hounded for years about “owing dues” after sending my resignation.
I for one prefer dangerous freedom (of right to work) to peaceful slavery (of being beholden to a union).
[QUOTE=jbtam99;155679]But yet some of us have. I’ve sailed Union… and I left that because ECO offered me TRIPLE what the union paid me as a mate on the crappy MSC contract tanker I worked on. It was a good bunch of folks I worked with, don’t get me wrong, but AMO didn’t put the money where their mouth was on the contract negotiations and we all suffered for it at OSI.
Am I bitter that Unions shafted me and my shipmates there, yes, probably equally as bitter as c.captain is towards “Joe Boss” for whatever reason. cough [I]NMU mouthpiece[/I] cough Am I upset about the 401k match? Of course, but I have job security, a good coordinator, a good manager, and I know that the few times that I’ve had to email GC, he actually reads them and responds, and things have gotten done. Is ECO perfect? No, but what company is? And what company in the gulf isn’t feeling a pinch right now?
I don’t “bleed orange and blue,” but I’m loyal to the company I choose (whatever it may be). I don’t bite the hand that feeds me. They’ve seen me through some of my rough times, and for that I’ll see them through this rough time. If that makes me a “bootlicker” then so be it, I’ve been called a “scab” and worse in the past by some SIU thugs too, but I got a paycheck, and I fed my family. If it’s what I wanted, at least I could leave the company and not be hounded for years about “owing dues” after sending my resignation.
I for one prefer dangerous freedom (of right to work) to peaceful slavery (of being beholden to a union).[/QUOTE]
Saying you dislike unions because of your AMO experience is about like saying tug companies are terrible because you worked for Bouchard.
As far not biting the hand that feeds you? I agree. If a company says their most valuable asset is their employees then they should treat them like they are. When times are hard tell the employees you are losing money and may go bankrupt if you don’t cut expenses, except for the corporate jet of course. Tell them you can lay people off and move people around based on seniority in position and minimum manning requirements or you can cut travel and 401k match. Ask them what they prefer. I am guessing they would decide to cut travel and 401k match. They would feel like their opinion and worth was valued also. However, that is probably a little too enlightened a management concept for most companies and even a few workers to comprehend.
[QUOTE=The Rover;155669]You’re a curmudgeon.
Do you feel better about yourself by tearing down fellow mariners?
The reason you hate the GoM is that you could not do the job plain & simple.[/QUOTE]
No doubt c.captain is a curmudgeon. I don’t think that even he can deny that. Sometimes his point gets lost in his cranky attitude. I don’t think this stems from that he could or couldn’t do the job. I think it stems from that some people in the GOM have had a holier than thou attitude because they were making a little more money. People who make a little more seem to think that they are somehow better than everyone else. Now he is kind of rubbing it in their face…and that really seems to bother those people.
Nah you’re way off on that one. He constantly tells all the rest of us he’s the best at everything. He also like to pretend he’s better than us because he doesn’t take money from the man. We are all toothless inbreds to dumb to think for ourselves. How do I know this because I get the daily dose of memes and YouTube clips to emphasize his points.
[QUOTE=tengineer1;155685]Saying you dislike unions because of your AMO experience is about like saying tug companies are terrible because you worked for Bouchard.[/QUOTE]
Yeahhhhhh… I like my kneecaps in one piece… I could have seen it go real well there if I hopped unions. “Hello, Mr. McKay, I’m resigning my book so I can go work for MEBA or MMP and leave your union before your indictment. What’s that? Oh of course you can send some friends to come talk to me and convince me what a good idea it is to stay with AMO.”
[QUOTE=Fraqrat;155687]Nah you’re way off on that one. He constantly tells all the rest of us he’s the best at everything. He also like to pretend he’s better than us because he doesn’t take money from the man. We are all toothless inbreds to dumb to think for ourselves. How do I know this because I get the daily dose of memes and YouTube clips to emphasize his points.[/QUOTE]
I maybe off on what he does but that is how I see things. People who make a bit more money have an air of superiority about them. Those people don’t take it well when someone tries to take them down a notch. The toothless inbreds part is correct- we all go to sea and none of us are right in the head. Btw he stills takes money from and works for somebody. Even if he owns his own business, he still has customers that he has to answer to.
[QUOTE=jbtam99;155690]Yeahhhhhh… I like my kneecaps in one piece… I could have seen it go real well there if I hopped unions. “Hello, Mr. McKay, I’m resigning my book so I can go work for MEBA or MMP and leave your union before your indictment. What’s that? Oh of course you can send some friends to come talk to me and convince me what a good idea it is to stay with AMO.”[/QUOTE]
You have been watching way too many episode of The Sopranos…
[QUOTE=c.captain;155651]and it is specifically because of this that Joe Boss and his bayoo pals have managed to keep holding all the cards…if necessary pay bloodmoney to the serfs but always manage to keep control of them. The workers are whores for selling their rights away for that piece of silver but it really says alot that the Bosses are willing to pay premium in order to keep holding all the cards. That overarching control comes at a price but now we see that there is a limit to how much the Bosses will endure before they realize that they can take some of that bloodmoney away and won’t lose their control because they will still keep most of their people who 1.) don’t have anywhere else to go, 2.) will never give up the great money if they did or 3.) can’t retire because they are too young for social security and don’t have a pension to fall back on. Either way, the Bosses now are going to start taking back. Safety bonuses, travel pay, paid training, and 401k matching today but wages tomorrow (because that is all there will be left to take from). If you really still do not believe that Joe won’t cut your pay or get rid of you then you are living on one of the distant outer planets that is covered with frozen gas.
what I wonder is what would have happened if the Bosses had not thrown caution to the win in the last 10 years with pay but kept to the old maxim of just giving enough to live but not enough to feel full? If they hadn’t raised pay to where they did, would you all be singing the same song here today about what a swell guy Joe is? Would I be the same pariah here? It will be quite interesting to see in six months what y’all say to me if the price of oil is still in the toilet like today and more of you have become victim to Joe’s arbitrary whims?[/QUOTE]
Bayou Joe Boss, at the least top five Joe Bosses, hold the cards because they pay more and have nice new big boats. If you have a DP certificate, but cannot move up to rig, yet, you cannot beat Bayou Joe Boss on payday. But if you are a 5th captain because you just got there and do not have DP, its nothing special.
Chouest crews did take a pay cut. All those who were forced to go even time lost 25% of their income. The new cuts are just salt in the wound.