[QUOTE=beekerbetter;155610]I’m not giving them credit for seeing into the future. If they were so good at that then they wouldn’t have been building and buying as much as they had. Yes having a job is grand and all, it’s the underhanded manner in which all this took place that is upsetting. This is the forum to come and complain without fear of retribution form “Joe Boss”. So I’m here to vent that’s all.[/QUOTE]
To be fair, know one saw a 60% drop in oil in 6 months coming. I hope I did not sound critical of the previous posts, vent away. have patience as the gulf will flourish again and you will soon have your pick of companies to work for.
[QUOTE=The Rover;155607] I am glad I did not get a pay cut. I am happy to have a job.
So if your that un-happy by all means leave and go somewhere else, I am sure the people that do not have a job would take your place in a heartbeat.
.[/QUOTE]
You did get a pay cut! That shows how narrow minded some of you are, if you consider losing a 401k match as something other than a pay cut. Its money they are no longer paying you. Same goes for travel.
[QUOTE=The Rover;155607]I have been with ECO for 15 years & I always had my check on time. I have seen some good times & bad times.
I don’t like that I lost my 401 (k) match & I don’t like losing my safety awards, but in the grand scheme of things I am glad I did not get a pay cut. I am happy to have a job.
So if your that un-happy by all means leave and go somewhere else, I am sure the people that do not have a job would take your place in a heartbeat.
I know I will probably get ridiculed by the keyboard commandoes on here for my statement, but I stand by it.[/QUOTE]
I agree with your sentiment, but as Z posted it is a pay cut.
I scrutinize 401K contributions and vesting period almost as heavily as I do wages when job shopping.
[QUOTE=z-drive;155612]You did get a pay cut! That shows how narrow minded some of you are, if you consider losing a 401k match as something other than a pay cut. Its money they are no longer paying you. Same goes for travel.[/QUOTE]
How narrow minded “some” of them are? How about “ALL” of them are down there? Never have I seen such a bunch completely beholden to Joe Boss’s “company line”! They literally will foam at the mouth saying what an awesome deal they are getting when they ain’t getting SHIT other than a paycheck. To love the Boss so much is to give him all the cards and leave none in your hand but these people can’t even see that labor/business is a high stakes game with winners and losers. We see now who the losers are because they threw in their cards decades ago. They did that because the Boss told them they had nothing to worry about, that they were “THE REASON THAT THIS COMPANY IS SO SUCCESSFUL” and that they were going to be showered with Ambrosia for their dedication and efforts. Now people like you and me see what they are really getting showered with and it doesn’t smell too nice, but I swear even now the GoM mariners think it is still the lovely food of the Gods! This thread only proves it even more than ever before. Joe Boss wins again…IDIOTIC FOOLS!
[QUOTE=beekerbetter;155610]I’m not giving them credit for seeing into the future. If they were so good at that then they wouldn’t have been building and buying as much as they had. Yes having a job is grand and all, it’s the underhanded manner in which all this took place that is upsetting. This is the forum to come and complain without fear of retribution form “Joe Boss”. So I’m here to vent that’s all.[/QUOTE]
it is about having a relationship with mutual respect between employer and employee. There used to be such relationships in US business many years ago and it still can be found in our industry at certain places but it certainly has never been very prevalent in the South. Joe Boss does not respect his people now nor in the past. They are only another tool necessary to get the work and earn the profits. A company’s management with respect for its rank and file would never take away something as big as retirement matching without showing that they too were giving something valuable up as well so to spread the pain. Arrogant company management however will always take from the workforce in order to maintain profitability for the owners. I’d like to know if ECO management has in any way shown they too are feeling any hurt over this market? What have they been forced to eat?
Well C-Ass is going to make me have to clarify once again. I’m still happy. Still make better money than most. Don’t kiss anyone’s ass and don’t feel like a serf. I’m only upset the way they did the cuts. Boats are getting stacked and day rates are going down. Hmm we work on boats that service oil drilling and oil production, so it makes sense that if that commodity loses value we loose pay. I don’t think anyone owes me more than the market will allow. In 12-16 months when oils booming and they can’t find enough people to fill spots our pay will rise again probably to its highest level ever. Just hope they keep those dam Yankees out next time.
ECO did see it coming and was smart enough to hold back on raises when raises and salaries got out of hand at Harvey and HOS. ECO knew that Harvey could only hire a relatively small number of its people away, Perhaps they figured the same about HOS.
ECO will be buying more DP boats as other companies go under. When the next boom arrives ECO will be bigger than ever.
If ECO were to announce a pay cut, I couldn’t blame them for that. The good times are no longer rolling. If ECO announces lay offs, i cannot blame the for that either.
But when they fire people on fraudulent pretexts to avoid paying unemployment, that ought to be a crime. Failing to pay an already earned 401k match isn’t any better.
A few years from now oil prices will be high again. ECO and HOS between them will have about 80 percent of the OSV market locked down. But next time with just two companies having most of the market cornered, OSV mariner wages will not go up.
Its also going to be interesting to see if the academies keep flooding the market with licenses over the few years. I really wonder where those kids are going to end up.
[QUOTE=tugsailor;155620]ECO did see it coming and was smart enough to hold back on raises when raises and salaries got out of hand at Harvey and HOS. ECO knew that Harvey could only hire a relatively small number of its people away, Perhaps they figured the same about HOS.
ECO will be buying more DP boats as other companies go under. When the next boom arrives ECO will be bigger than ever.
If ECO were to announce a pay cut, I couldn’t blame them for that. The good times are no longer rolling. If ECO announces lay offs, i cannot blame the for that either.
But when they fire people on fraudulent pretexts to avoid paying unemployment, that ought to be a crime. Failing to pay an already earned 401k match isn’t any better.
A few years from now oil prices will be high again. ECO and HOS between them will have about 80 percent of the OSV market locked down. But next time with just two companies having most of the market cornered, OSV mariner wages will not go up.
Its also going to be interesting to see if the academies keep flooding the market with licenses over the few years. [B] I really wonder where those kids are going to end up[/B].[/QUOTE]
The KP grads will get hired by CCaptain for service on his latest denizen of the deep.
Their payment will be tutelage in the fine art of GCaptain thread participation.
[QUOTE=c.captain;155614]How narrow minded “some” of them are? How about “ALL” of them are down there? Never have I seen such a bunch completely beholden to Joe Boss’s “company line”! They literally will foam at the mouth saying what an awesome deal they are getting when they ain’t getting SHIT other than a paycheck. To love the Boss so much is to give him all the cards and leave none in your hand but these people can’t even see that labor/business is a high stakes game with winners and losers. We see now who the losers are because they threw in their cards decades ago. They did that because the Boss told them they had nothing to worry about, that they were “THE REASON THAT THIS COMPANY IS SO SUCCESSFUL” and that they were going to be showered with Ambrosia for their dedication and efforts. Now people like you and me see what they are really getting showered with and it doesn’t smell too nice, but I swear even now the GoM mariners think it is still the lovely food of the Gods! This thread only proves it even more than ever before. Joe Boss wins again…IDIOTIC FOOLS![/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=z-drive;155612]You did get a pay cut! That shows how narrow minded some of you are, if you consider losing a 401k match as something other than a pay cut. Its money they are no longer paying you. Same goes for travel.[/QUOTE]
Dropping the 401k match is a 6 percent paycut before taxes; its about a 9 percent paycut after taxes.
Not paying travel, which just about every other industry in the US does, and most of the non-Gulf maritime industry does, is also a pay cut that probably averages about $1000 per month. Not paying for those hotels and meals, plus your full dayrate while traveling and waiting for crew change is also a paycut.
What about crew change day? is ECO one of those companies that steals half a day of pay from each of its employees?
When you look at working in the Gulf its really 27 paid days on, 1 unpaid day on, and two or three unpaid travel days for the job, and about 25 days off. Dayrates do have to be about 15 percent higher to make up for that.
I can make as much working in the PNW when you consider that I usually get full dayrate, and full travel (airfare, meals, hotels, etc.) door to door. Admittedly, I could make more at Otto Candies or Harvey, if I could pass the ridiculous physical. I suspect that it would end up being not all that much more at ECO or HOS, if I could pass the physical.
When it comes to Joe Boss’s attitude, its usually a lot better outside the Gulf. Ok, Crowley sucks everywhere, and then there are a few companies like Bouchard. I’ll let someone else opine about Kirby and Sauce. Yes, there are plenty of good small companies, and quite a few bad ones too.
There is a boat company based in Washington State run by Captain Chohkzonsdicks. They have 50 boats that lighter Chinese freighters offshore Seattle. They unload all the tea from China and deliver it coastwise from San Diego to Alalska. All of the Mariners that work for Teabag Boat Services are smarter than everyone else because they joined a union. Mr. Chohkzonsdicks is a wealthy man with several yachts, private planes and palatial estates around the world. The employees at Teabag Boat Services have no desire to be taken advantage of by a billionaire. They negotiate a very generous and fair contract with a chicken in every pot. So the crews are happy and dance and sing and deliver the tea up and down the coast.
All is well until the Canadians decide to expand their tea production. They have an eager market just across the border in the PNW. The Chinese freighters laden with tea become few and far between. The tea is now delivered by Mexican truck drivers using the NAFTA super highway. Now there is no more high dollar contracts for coastwise tea delivery. Teabag Boat Services has to cold stack 40 of their 50 vessels. All those Mariners have been laid off and are now looking for any work available. They were smart though according to their contract they got a months wages as severance. All of their 401k match was paid out and they got a coupon for a free bloomin onion from Outback.
A month later all the out of work Mariners are sitting in their union hall looking for work. Things are tough all over not enough job opening to absorb all these newly unemployed people. Mr. Chohkzonsdicks feels so terrible about things he takes a trip on one of his mega yachts to Tahiti.
What is the difference between this scenario and if the company was non union? Not much other than some severance pay. When the boat is tied up there is no guarantee of a job. If there is a union contract that does this someone please send me a copy. Multimillionaires still are not gonna be impacted as much as the working stiff. I fail to see how Joe Boss running a union company in another part of the country is any different than a non union Joe Boss in the GOM. When there is no work he’s not making any money either. People that came down here to work in the last few years were warned this would happen. All of us were trying to tell them to save some of that money for the lean times. Anyone who has been down here for a while saw the writing on the wall back in September. There was plenty of time to get out. Joe Boss isn’t fucking anyone the Saudis have everyone bent over.
[QUOTE=c.captain;155614]How narrow minded “some” of them are? How about “ALL” of them are down there? Never have I seen such a bunch completely beholden to Joe Boss’s “company line”! They literally will foam at the mouth saying what an awesome deal they are getting when they ain’t getting SHIT other than a paycheck. To love the Boss so much is to give him all the cards and leave none in your hand but these people can’t even see that labor/business is a high stakes game with winners and losers. We see now who the losers are because they threw in their cards decades ago. They did that because the Boss told them they had nothing to worry about, that they were “THE REASON THAT THIS COMPANY IS SO SUCCESSFUL” and that they were going to be showered with Ambrosia for their dedication and efforts. Now people like you and me see what they are really getting showered with and it doesn’t smell too nice, but I swear even now the GoM mariners think it is still the lovely food of the Gods! This thread only proves it even more than ever before. Joe Boss wins again…IDIOTIC FOOLS![/QUOTE]
Scooter please come up with something new and stop the cut & paste posting or just STFU.
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[QUOTE=Johnny Canal;155622][/QUOTE]
The UNION sandwich ?
Union or not, its not a matter of the guarantee of work after a layoff. I don’t get who keeps saying union men are guaranteed work any more than anyone else is??? Its about having some formality to how people are treated when it happens. No bullshit firings because they won’t suck it up and lay people off, going by some type of seniority system, and in some cases a severance package. I know plenty of union mariners with no severance pay in their contract, its not universal. And NONE of them are guaranteed work after a layoff, just a formal way of offering work that comes up in a formal system. Unions in some cases can just keep everyone honest, obviously there are crooked unions (most) but they don’t have money in their pockets if their mariners aren’t working. No union would let a years 401k that guys contributed to with the expecation of a match fly, and anyone that eats that shit sandwich at a non-union company without complaining to the (what is it 45th floor now?) has no balls. I said it. So what if you get fired, at least you aren’t just another cattle in the herd and made your case.
At least Mr. Chohkzonsdicks has the balls to actually lay people off, rather than fire enough or furlough them indefinitely.
Surprised nobody has come on here yet and said none of this is true, Chouest would never do that?
The only difference between boatowner Joe Boss and Union Joe Boss is that boatowner Joe Boss usually pays better with less bullshit.
you’re wrong there z-drive…they ain’t cattle but rather sheep
it is because they know what you say is true and cannot be assailed but that particular OMSA flavor Koolaid has a way of stoopifying the tongue so it doesn’t have the capacity to speak the truth…all it does is allow the loyal serf the ability to regurgitate the Joe Boss company line over and over and over again
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am I irritating you yet? inconvenient truths have a way of doing that to people who are stoopid
The UNION sandwich ?
so clever of you when it is mariners who have no collective power losing their benefits to keep the Bossman fat…A-MAY-ZING!
So the owners of all union boat companies live in trailer parks and drive 10year old cars? All union boat companies simply exist to employ people so all can share the profits equally? Man we should collectively bargain with stock brokers. Would be nice to get all my money back if the stock market crashes.
WHY? WHY? WHY, do you believe the world is oh so much better when the cards are all held by the boss? As it is now, the mariners in the GoM do not even hold a single deuce let alone a pair. Why is it fine for the Bosses to make the decisions totally unilaterally?
Most here will note that my pointy stick is especially sharpened where the AMO and SIU are concerned. I have no love for them in the slightest but on the otherhand, the concept of the workforce being represented as a collective is something I do not understand at all that people do not want when it is only for your own benefit? Why is it that the Bosses do not want the workers to be collectively represented so badly that they howl at the mere mention of the U word and will run off anyone aboard one of their vessels who dares utter it? It is because the U word frightens the HELL out of them is why. Why are they so frightened by the U word? Because they fear losing all the great cards they hold and might have to actually play a hand against another good player who also has a good hand full of face cards. The deck is stacked against the worker if he is not part of a collective…individual mariners do not have bargaining power. Why do you not understand any of this?
One thing for sure, when the UNION Shit WAS flying around down here it was a literal SHIT STORM, no doubt about it. The outcome was that it made ALOT of shit better for us since then. But all the smoke that was pumped up our asses since has all cleared away! Get it? Now we are once again left with broken promises. Where are the Company meetings asking us what we want? or What we have to say? ETC…
I have lived (27yr) through the hardest of times in this oil patch, I can assure you.Never in those times have I had a pay cut, lay off, or AX to my 401k. Yep saw some even time, instead of 2 for 1 but this shit is just a damn crime. The lean time is just starting. What does that have to do with last year?
This is such bullshit mainly because we can all see what THEY ARE DOING, MAKING EXCUSES TO SHOVE IT UP OUR ASSES WHILE THE CHAMPAGNE & CAVIAR KEEP FLOWING!
[B]MY STATEMENT IS CLEAR; WHERE ARE YOU AS A COMPANY TRIMMING THE FAT WITH THE EMPLOYEES?? INSTEAD OF JUST SCREWING THEM…[/B]
Wait for it… There’s no U in union…
[QUOTE=tugsailor;155637]The only difference between boatowner Joe Boss and Union Joe Boss is that boatowner Joe Boss usually pays better with less bullshit.[/QUOTE]
So true. When Joe Boss calls for a job, you better answer. When he says jump, you say “how high and when?”. When the union boss calls, you think “do I want answer or should I let the voicemail pick it up?”.
When there is some bullshit class to take, Joe Boss tells you when to take it. If you were in the union, you look at the schedule and see what fits best for you. I hate thinking for myself. There is so much more thinking that you have to do with the union, that is bullshit. It is much easier to have Joe Boss run your life.