As I was looking through the list of USCG approved celestial classes, I noticed that some have “Operational Level” or “Management Level” or nothing listed under the class name. Can someone explain to me what the difference is between the op level vs management level class. Is there different material covered? I did notice that the assessments listed under the “Management Level” are from policy letter 04-02. I have a 1600 Master NC and a 3rd Mate NC, wishing to increase the scope to Oceans. Is this relevant to me on which class I take?
I do understand the “operational” & “management” on the STCW side. I was just curious as to what the difference is with the class itself…
If the assesments for the schools are listed, read through them and compare. Or call the school thet teaches said courses and ask directly.
[QUOTE=Capt Brian;20032]As I was looking through the list of USCG approved celestial classes, I noticed that some have “Operational Level” or “Management Level” or nothing listed under the class name. Can someone explain to me what the difference is between the op level vs management level class. Is there different material covered? I did notice that the assessments listed under the “Management Level” are from policy letter 04-02. I have a 1600 Master NC and a 3rd Mate NC, wishing to increase the scope to Oceans. Is this relevant to me on which class I take?[/QUOTE]
Keep in mind that some courses fulfill testing requirements, but only for lower level licenses (just endorsing your master license), if presented within a year. Some courses also are approved for different assessments. “Management Level” would included what is needed for Chief Mate/ Master. I think Star Center is the only school that offers a course with all required assessments for Management Level, but the course in itself is optional.
Personally, If I were in your shoes, unless you need an oceans endorsement now, I would just wait and test at the Chief Mate level - since you will have to retest anyway - operational level testing, that you do now, will have to be done again at the management level.
You’ll have plenty enough time to study and get assessments on your own.
As far as the difference in difficulty between operational and management level celestial testing, you will need to know a little more. For instance, operational level will alway ask a great circle question about the initial course & distance, or final position. Something simple. Management level will ask for a position at a certain longitude along your route, meaning that you will need to figure out the vertex as a reference. It’s not difficult, just something else that needs to be added to your knowledge base. Being that you’ve never had an oceans endorsement, you might think it to be overwhelming, but it’s not that much more when you have the time to take a little in at a time.
As of right now, I don’t have a need for the Ocean endorsement. But, I feel with the endorsement on the 3rd Mate license it will open the doors for more opportunities for me. That is my main reason for considering it at this point. Anchorman - thank you for clarifying it for me.
The differences are the approvals, whiuch you’ve noticed. I can’t disclose the course contents as they are proprietary, but you can deduce it from the approvals. Celestial courses vary. Read the approvals and make sure the one you take is approved to do what you need.
I assume this is in connection with your recent approval for 3rd Mate. If so, we do not approve courses to substitute for 3rd Mate exams. However, if you have never had any celestial navigation training, you will probably need a course to learn it, it’s going to be pretty difficult to learn on your own. An operational level course that is also approved for the Mate 500/1600 exams will teach you what you need for the test.
To answer the question some may have about not approving for 3rd Mate when it is the same test as Mate 500/1600, the practice of approving celstial courses for Mate 500/1600 exusted long before the exams were combined for STCW, since at least 1996. When the exams were combined we wanted to retain the policy of not approving courses for unlimited tonnage exams, and it was deemed more politically desirable to allow schools with existing courses for 500/1600 tons to modify their courses and keep their approvals. The alternartive would have been to withdraw their approvals, that was a fight we elected not to take on.
What’s the difference in the classes? Well how about difficulty of the subject matter. At the operational level, you’ll learn “basic” Celnav. How to shoot sun and star LOP’s, Upper transits of the sun, and basic azimuths. That sort of thing.
When you get to the Management level classes you are expected to know all of the above already and will start getting into the “Exotic” sights like lower transits, ex-meridians, upper transits of non-solar bodies, and high altitude sun observations.
Frankly, while the class isn’t technically necessary at the management level, it sure is a help remembering how to do some of this stuff. For one of my C/M questions I was asked to find Latitude by ex-meridian at lower transit for the star Acrux. That is not something most mariners would remember how to do, or be able to figure out, without some instruction.
The content of the course is proprietary and I can’t disclose it. Perhaps the school offewring it might provide you a course outline.
Here is one example of the breakdown of the classes. It explains it fairly well to me.
Actually this site does explain most of the classes fairly well. I have taken classes here but not (yet) this particular class.
[QUOTE=micheale;21407]Well there’s a sucker born every minute, so you should be able to shear the sheep quite successfully. I don’t have much sympathy for fools so any money you can separate from the idiots in this world should be substantial.[/QUOTE]
Spoken like a true tourette syndrome sufferer. Guess it couldn’t be that hard to shear the sheep when you have such a tight grip of the waste from behind.
Check your signature…doubt the idiots on here came for whiter teeth and bigger muscles.