A 3 AE is a 3 AE to all regs and employment. There is nothing I can find that favors an academy grad versus a hawespiper. Having an Engineering Degree is just a different way of doing it. He would basically be doing his cadet seatime all at once. Or someone who has seatime could go to college and get a Engineering degree and then sit for his license. Assuming he finished school in the 5 years before his seatime recent years ran out but, not even sure how that applies.
We know the NMC frequently makes errors. Your example doesn’t prove the jdcavo is wrong, it proves that NMC evaluators aren’t trained properly.
So it takes 1080 days for a 3 AE to get OICEW but, after 360 of which he will have already upgraded to at least 2 AE if not 1AE?
I know multiple engineers that obtained their OICEW via the “National Crossover” line in the FAR and on the USCG Checklist: https://www.dco.uscg.mil/Portals/9/NMC/pdfs/checklists/mcp_fm_nmc5_213_web.pdf
The OICEW is, in spirit, equal to the USA 3rd A/E license. So it makes sense that one that earns a 3rd A/E will be able to get an OICEW endorsement. I see no stipulation on the pathway one obtained a 3rd A/E license.
Most of the example engineers I speak of were granted OICEW during the grandfather period–meaning they did not have to take the additional classes nor do the assessments. Those that earned it after the grandfather period (I think beginning 2017) had to take the classes and do assessments as shown on the “National Crossover” table.
I hardly think the NMC has screwed up multiple times. And it does not make sense to require 1080 days to obtain OICEW when it essentially the international equivalent of a 3rd A/E.
Maybe somebody should call Holly Chetta and get the real answer.
After December 31, 2016?
The “law” says no such thing. The summary table does but that isn’t law and doesn’t trump the actual text.
Here is what the actual “law” says are the only two ways to get OICEW:
e) Seafarers with one of the following national officer endorsements are eligible to apply for this endorsement upon completion of the requirements in the following table:
Table 1 to § 11.329(e) - STCW Endorsement as OICEW in a Manned Engine Room or Designated Duty Engineer in a Periodically Unmanned Engine Room on Vessels Powered by Main Propulsion Machinery of 750 kW/1,000 HP Propulsion Power or More
(Table doesn’t paste but, includes 3 AE) so now I am confused. So is the endorsement OICEW something that 1AE get or Chief Engineers get? Because a 3AE would have advanced by the time he has 1080 days of seatime. Not arguing just confused.
I’m aware of the table, but the summary table doesn’t overrule the regulations. Read the other threads on here about this topic to see jdcavo explain those tables. If you don’t believe the lawyer who wrote many of those rules than I don’t know why your asking at all.
Trying to figure out what it means. Still haven’t gotten the answer of when in an 3AE he gets the OICEW credential. Also it’s a summary table, I think, it is part of the regulations. I’ll keep looking.
She will give you the one you want to hear… How many years (12) and how many rule changes are needed before “I used to work in an REC…” doesn’t count for much?I don’t know how they do on applications at NMC, but the ex-REC license consultant crowd does no better on appeals to HQ than a mariner appealing pro se. It might well be worse than pro se mariners.
Several members on this forum have had good experience with her…can’t argue with success, even if it’s purely placebo effect.
Please explain why the table exists in the FAR? Also, what about this verbage: (e) Seafarers with one of the following national officer endorsements are eligible to apply for this endorsement upon completion of the requirements in the following table:
Both before and after 2016. I believe this forum stated back before Dec 31, 2016 that OICEW still required 1080 days for non-academy grads. The forum was wrong then, the forum is wrong now. But whatever, it’s the internet, so believe what you want. Believe the table that exists on the FAR and the NMC checklist has zero value and means nothing. Why would such a table exist? What is the purpose of it?
I got OICEW when I got my 3A/E. I’d have to dig out my application to see how much sea time I submitted when I applied for the license, but it was apparently sufficient. This was pre-2016. I am not an academy grad.
I hate those tables, I had nothing to do with them and argued against having them.
I doubt it because that was one of the rule changes that went into effect on 01 January 2017. Just like how to get STCW II/2 Master less than 3,000 GT now you have to have 1080 days as OICNW so 2nd mates, while they still qualify for Master 1,600 GRT, do NOT qualify for Master 3,000 GT so their 1,600 ton Master is effectively worthless.
Then it doesn’t apply today. There were no regs for OICEW then, if you held the associated national endorsement you were eligible for OICEW ( subject to assessments).
Ah, that explains it. I remember just checking the box when I applied for third, and submitting the STCW certificates needed. I don’t remember a time requirement for anything but the national endorsement.
I am so confused then. Again not arguing just trying to find out. Especially how having a license applies as the table in section e shows no additional time is required.
That’s how much seatime it takes to become one if you go the QMED way. But you can also get license as a3 AE with less if you have an ABET Mechanical or Electrical Engineering Degree (180 days) or the land Apprenticeship (360 days). So you see my confusion.
You can get 3AE that way but the only way to get OICEW without 1080 days is through an approved training program like an academy or AMO’s apprenticeship.
Not able to find anywhere it says that.