Yes,
Mexico not much different regarding bribes.
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Oh, the tales I could tell. . . .
That said, and back on to the subject of the thread, I never thought of KP as a “real” college, and have always thought of it as a trade school. . . with extra classes and tons of BS. . . I can say that I learned more skills, or should I say was introduced to more skills there in that 4 years that I have built on since then, especially as an engineer.
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That’s my point. You can get a degree in Mechanical Engineering and never get your hands greasy. BTW, you can get licensed as a 3rd A/E with a Mechanical or Electrical Engineering Degree and 180 days of sea-time.
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We deckies don’t drive anywhere without good engineers. They have a vise grip on our balls if need be. Treat the good ones well.
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But you can’t get OICEW with that little sea time anymore so that license is effectively worthless.
Does that apply to Marine Engineering grads who only need 90 days? Also can you tell me where I can look this up? Isn’t 180 days about the seatime a cadet gets in an academy?
Thanks
Thing is as I read it if you have a 3 A/E license (which a Mechanical Engineer can get after 180 days which is 6 months) he/she has met all requirements.
This is for the STCW endorsement of Officer in Charge of an Engineering Watch. To work on a vessel that operates outside the “boundary line” (near coastal or oceans) you need both the 3AE license and the STCW endorsement for OICEW.
Understand I’m not arguing…I’m trying to understand the regulations. (e) Seafarers with one of the following [national officer endorsements] https://ecfr.io/Title-46/Section-11.329 which states (as I read it) a licensed 3rd A/E doesn’t have any additional seatime requirements to get oicew. Is that the way it is with Academy grads?
Also under regulations about how to get a 3rd A/E license it doesn’t matter how you got your license or how much time you have.
§ 11.516 - Service requirements for national endorsement as third assistant engineer of steam, motor, and/or gas turbine-propelled vessels.
© A person holding this endorsement may qualify for an STCW endorsement, according to §§11.327, 11.329, and 11,333 of this part.
There has been steps taken in the U.K. To enable mariners to obtain qualifications relevant to the marine industry but are recognised outside the industry.
I recall an instructor onboard the Golden Bear (?) telling me that most of the engineering graduates went to shore based industries because the employers liked the structured training.
Engineers here and in Australia and Britain followed two paths:
- Serve a 4 year apprenticeship in a approved heavy engineering firm ashore, not automotive engineering a sewing machine factory. Then on passing a stationary engine drivers ticket go to sea as a junior and on acquiring the sea time go to school and sit second engineer and chief engineer certification. I sailed with an engineer whose first trip to sea after completing his time was the acting seventh on the old Queen Mary. Basically the tea boy.
- Serve a Cadetship at sea and after completing the apprenticeship go to school as above.
Many of those who followed the first path had completed their apprenticeship in dockyards or companies involved in marine repair and maintenance and most had completed a Fitting and Turning qualification. For a few of a more academic mind there was an advanced trade option that was well regarded by industry
#1 with 360 days at sea is a way to get 3rd A/E.
You will find lots of arguments on this forum that OICEW requires 1080 days. The law states no additional sea service required from that of achieving 3rd A/E (it’s in the table). However, additional training (classes) and competence (signed off assessments) must be completed. STCW classes will cost about $15,000 plus lodging/food. Mid Atlantic maritime is one place that offers such classes.
This is the internet, with it’s associated experts, but I know a guy recently that got his 3rd A/E and STCW OICEW with an electrical engineering degree and worked 180days as wiper and took the classes (I think at mid atlantic). I assure you he was granted an OICEW without 1080 days.
(e) Seafarers with one of the following national officer endorsements are eligible to apply for this endorsement upon completion of the requirements in the following table:
Table 1 to §11.329(e)—STCW Endorsement as OICEW in a Manned Engine Room or Designated Duty Engineer in a Periodically Unmanned Engine Room on Vessels Powered by Main Propulsion Machinery of 750 kW/1,000 HP Propulsion Power or More
[Operational level]
Entry path from national endorsements Sea service* Competence—
STCW Table A-
III/1** Training
required by
this
section***
Second assistant engineer any horsepower None Yes Yes
Third assistant engineer any horsepower None Yes Yes
Assistant engineer (limited) None Yes Yes
Designated duty engineer, (unlimited) (less than 500 GRT) None Yes Yes
Assistant engineer (MODU) None Yes Yes
Assistant engineer (OSV) None Yes Yes
Designated duty engineer, 3,000 kW/4,000 HP1 12 months Yes Yes
Designated duty engineer, 750 kW/1,000 HP1 24 months Yes Yes
That’s how I understand it because don’t Maritime Academy grads qualify and they have way less than that. About 1080 days is enough to go from 3 A/E to CE. And you can also get a license by: 1080 days of service as an apprentice to the machinist trade engaged in the construction or repair of marine, locomotive, or stationary engines WITH 360 days service in the engine room as Oiler, Fireman/Watertender or Junior Engineer.
But I cannot find a list of actual Apprenticeships that qualify.
They qualify as an “approved program” not by accumulating sea time.
But then the regulations don’t seam to care how you got your license. And the regs do state how long the cadet cruises have to be.
Don’t recall JD Cavo not being on point regarding regulations concerning USA or Jones Act trade licensing info for USCG requirements.