Thanks for the information, that is interesting but in the loophole way it is makes sense. Sorry of my harshness earlier. I have never worked on an tug that hasn’t had the equipment to tow astern. I am surprised that a ATB that can be detached from the notch can even be built without the equipment to tow astern. I have never had a sea letter mention the barge I was paired with ever so thats also interesting that even the wire boat company you mentioned list the barge in the sealetter.
If your service letter indicates ATB then that says it all. It is not an ITB. Creditable sea time is good for 50 percent of an unlimited license. There isn’t a loophole. I am sure @jdcavo can clarify if in doubt.
It really is a surreal feeling when people say what you’ve done is impossible 
. Ive witness every level of unlimited upgrade happen on an ATB in the past year.
1 Like
I’ve seen those upgrades too. Now that you mention it I remember that the sea service letters had said, “Consider this a push mode ITB.” With listed tonnage of the tug and barge, always pinned in, and aggregate tonnage listed too. If this wasn’t the case literally everyone, including the master of a 650 330k bbl ATB or even a 750 out there would still be a 3rd Mate unlimited. What a joke.
It’s a joke that Master of a 10k-12k HP tug pushing a 330k bbl barge drawing well over 30ft draft can’t get unlimited tonnage. Crazy, on my pilotage license it says unlimited. My masters license is/was 1600 tons. That was the criteria back then. Perhaps things have have changed, I’ve been retired for quite some time. One more thing I would like to add. AMO is not as cool wave interpets. Old AMO perhaps that description would suffice, but since Paul Doell took over it is in good shape. The retirement fund is in the best condition in over 20 years. It is also rare the newer ATB’s even have a tow winch. The newer Captains would’nt know what to do if their pin system failed. It ain’t pretty.
1 Like
The M/V Excellence is unlimited tonnage at a gross tonnage of 4312. As are many of the commercial fishing vessels on the west coast.
MSC, OSV’s, & research vessels can also get you the sea time on non-union ships that you are looking for.
None of the above are particularly good jobs, however, they will get you what you need. As stated by many, it is better having a less than perfect job than having no job at all.
US Army Corps of Engineers operates unlimited tonnage dredgers and some other vessels that may work for you. Not sure if NOAA ships are union or not.
I’ve always heard that Chevron prefers hiring new mates fresh out of school and training them rather than hiring someone with experience.
No one said it isn’t possible, we all know evaluators make mistakes regularly, but it was a mistake on the evaluators part.
I value your opinion Phoenix. Every time I renewed USCG would not give me unlimited tonnage. My irony with that was when I sat for pilotage, I got unlimited for that port on JA vessels. Why not both? I hope the rules have changed since then.
Pilotage counts the tonnage of the barge, but pilotage requirements are based on the tonnage of the barge as well.
If that’s the case then it should require an unlimited license. Be careful what you ask for…
Not prior to 2000 something. What would be a reason to be for careful what I asked for? Was driving them with a 1600 ton license… Liability was the same. Not quite following you. Nothing on my pilotage mentions the barge, It says “Unlimited tonnage”. My license says “1600 ton Master”. That has been a beef for many in our industry that drive large, deep draft ATB’s.
It takes 3 seconds to find it …
Not hard to find.
Not to drive this further off topic but to respond to the post. The point @Capt_Phoenix was making (I assume) is that if you could upgrade to unlimited tonnage on those ATBs then those are the licenses that should have crewed them in the first place. I am not advocating one way or the other, just pointing out the argument.
2 Likes
Because the logical conclusion reached when you say “they are big enough that we should get unlimited sea time for running them” is that if they are that big then they should require unlimited licenses to run them.
But the rules specifying when first class pilotage is required DO mention barges.
the company usually requires unlimited licenses for those ATBs anyways so the fact that they can legally run them with a 1600t master is meaningless.
Also for @Kingrobby, I meant the GRT (gross registered tonnage). That is the tonnage that shows up on your US sealetter. You may have more experience sailing on a foreign vessels which use ITC. Honestly I think the US should use ITC. There are sometimes great disparities between gross tonnage (GT) and gross registered tonnage (GRT). Sorry I thought it was clear I was looking for Gross Registered Tonnage in that I was talking about sea-letters and such. I’ll make sure I am more clear next time.
Some time spent reading the CFRs and Policy Letters, learning about the industry and generally learning how to find information that is important to the success (or not) of your maritime future will benefit you more than begging for help with the basics.