That is a question better answered by an admiralty lawyer than a professional mariner (90% of which are sea lawyers, but that is a whole different animal).
A flag state will determine which requirements the Vessel will have to meet with regard to trading certificates. Most of the flag states are signees to various international conventions (MARPOL for pollution, SOLAS for safety, Load Line for stability, etc.). Of course, these regulations also differ depending on the type and size of the Vessel and the intended or actual service.
Meeting the various conventions and flag standards are often a requirement of any insurance policy/implied or actual seaworthiness. I think THAT is where this case will have the most interest. I would assume that one of the sides would have some kind of insurance, either H&M or P&I. That would also determine which country/locality would have the juristidiction of any disputes. Of course, as I said, an admiralty lawyer could answer this better. Especially in the absence of any insurance. Then you deal with liabilties. Accusations of piracy aside.
[quote=Kenshin;24681]There is a question I am interested in any professional mariner’s opinion on. Let’s just say this is a hypothetical situation as described below.
A vessel is registered with Ghana, but decides to fly the flag of say… Sweden.
Sweden publicly states this vessel is not theirs and it is a farce.
Can that vessel, flying a false flag, now be treated as an unflagged vessel? I mean, as far as anybody else knows, they don’t have a flag state, right?
Are there other ways that somebody, from – say – South Korea, who runs into this ship flying a false flag should know what it’s registered flag State really is?[/quote]
If it was a vessel registered in Ghana, it would not be treated as a “stateless vessel” but a vessel under the flag state of Ghana. Flying a different flag does not negate that fact.
What I guess I’m asking is how you would know it is registered with Ghana when it is – knowingly – flying a false flag whose State has declared it is not one of theirs.
You know of the news from Sweden. But how do you know they’re registered with Ghana when they’re not flying that flag?
Simply put, the home port is welded into the stern of the ship, along with the name and IMO number. Most of the time no flags are being flown anyway, except when entering port and maybe when transiting a coastal area.
[quote=Kenshin;24698]What I guess I’m asking is how you would know it is registered with Ghana when it is – knowingly – flying a false flag whose State has declared it is not one of theirs.
You know of the news from Sweden. But how do you know they’re registered with Ghana when they’re not flying that flag?[/quote]
Well I only knew because it was the information you provided in your question. However, in the Coast Guard we would ask them. Then check with the claimed flag state to verify their claim.
I have looked up the IMO # at Miramar Ship Index. It lists an initial tonnage of 597 then an increase to 598 followed by 788, and now I read news reports saying 1200 tons.
Is it possible for a ship to be modified and have it’s tonnage change this much?
The 1200 is coming from SSCS press releases, which are notorious for their treatment of facts. If you don’t see the 1200 listed in an official source, I would treat the number with a bucketful of salt.
[quote=mm1palmer;24788]I have looked up the IMO # at Miramar Ship Index. It lists an initial tonnage of 597 then an increase to 598 followed by 788, and now I read news reports saying 1200 tons.
Is it possible for a ship to be modified and have it’s tonnage change this much?[/quote]
Yes. The original registry tonnage was 597, a new bridge was built later and the tonnage increased to 598. Later there were major modifications made to enclose more volume as the use of the ship changed and the tonnage went up to 788.
A ship’s tonnage is a volume measurement made for the purpose of taxation and other regulatory matters. It is not a measure of weight.
The current owners are listing the displacement, probably to make the ship sound larger to some, like many of those who have responded to your question, who don’t know that there is a difference between register tonnage and displacement.
Yours is a reasonable question and it’s a shame that people who should know better could only answer with some wise-ass comment.
[quote=Steamer;24797]Yes. The original registry tonnage was 597, a new bridge was built later and the tonnage increased to 598. Later there were major modifications made to enclose more volume as the use of the ship changed and the tonnage went up to 788.
A ship’s tonnage is a volume measurement made for the purpose of taxation and other regulatory matters. It is not a measure of weight.
The current owners are listing the displacement, probably to make the ship sound larger to some, like many of those who have responded to your question, who don’t know that there is a difference between register tonnage and displacement.
Yours is a reasonable question and it’s a shame that people who should know better could only answer with some wise-ass comment.[/quote]
Thanks for the answer.
So the 1200 tons could be due to modifications that they made like adding the helo pad and such, or it could be an inflated number they are using for PR purposes, or it could be a combination of an actual increase with some exaggeration.
Google ship tonnage for a variety of explanations.
The short version is that the tonnage you found when you searched for the ship is register tons, it is a calculation based on the volume of space subject to taxation and is used as a regulatory figure for things like manning and crew certification requirements. These tons are not weight, they are cubic volume, either 100 ft3 or a little under 3 m3.
I have the registration documents for a large yacht in front of me at the moment, the gross tonnage is 1126, the net tonnage is 337. The boat was recently drydocked and the figures I have for the actual weight, which is the displacement, indicates at the time it was hauled it weighed 820 metric tons. In the case of a yacht or passenger ship where most of the useable space is enclosed, the register tonnage for the taxman is higher than the actual weight. Some cruise ships have a gross or register tonnage twice their displacement for example.
The modifications to the Sea Shepard bot increased the register tonnage. they may or may not have had much impact on the displacement. I can change the register tonnage of a ship by hundreds of tons by simply installing a hatch that might nothing to the displacement.
The higher figure you found, 1200 tons is almost certainly the displacement tonnage, that is the weight of the ship, the weight of water that used to be in the hole that is now filled with hull. Both the 788 and the 1200 are valid figures, and if you want to call it exaggeration you can but it is sort of like if you have to pay taxes you use the lowest value you can get away with and if you are selling you use the highest value you can find. In this case both figures are accurate, they are just different figures used for different purposes. You tell your creditors you are poor, you tell your girlfriend you are rich.
What do the sailors and mariners here think about him sailing up to the Med. Sea to attack Tuna Fishermen that he claims are poaching. He has no way of asking for licenses or permits so I thnk he will just ram the ships trying to destroy the line haulers
I am surprised there was no comment here on Pete Bethunes stunt, of boarding the Shonan Maru to “Arrest” the skipper. I haven’t heard the outcome of that yet.
[quote=john;5387]This is not a joke!
SYDNEY (AFP) — Actress Daryl Hannah will sail for the inhospitable South Ocean on Wednesday as part of a campaign to stop Japanese whalers from slaughtering the giant animals, organisers said.
Hannah, best known for her role as a mermaid in the 1984 hit “Splash”, will be part of the militant Sea Shepherd Conservation Society’s annual campaign to find, track and impede the whaling ships.
The film star on Wednesday will join the “Steve Irwin”, which departs from the eastern Australian city of Brisbane, for the first week of the voyage.
“Passionate about the issues facing our planet, Hannah will join the crew,” Sea Shepherd said in a statement.
The star of films such as “Blade Runner” and “Kill Bill” said more needed to be done to stop the Japanese from killing endangered species in the waters off Antarctica.
“It is surprising and shocking to me that governments are not doing this work – that it is up to individuals and non-government organisations to uphold international law and protect endangered species,” she told AAP news agency.[/quote]
I didn’t see her in season 1 or 2. Funny she cares enough to save the whales but couldn’t even help her old man save his company…Hannah Marine Towing.
I downloaded both seasons to watch on the boat. Unbelievable. They bitch about not having enough money and you see 5k Panasonic Toughbooks hitting the deck in rough seas. I wish I could afford a toughbook.
Yes, I agree. Total lack of professionalism on that boat and a bunch of frickin wackos. Entertaining but stupid. Did they ever lock those guys up? I havn’t seen a season 3 yet. Only reruns of the first two seasons.
Let the japs fish them out. Who cares. They will find some other bottom feeder to eat after the whales are gone. We are a self destructive species. Paul Watson and The Red Hot Chili Peppers are not giing to make a difference. Pillage, plunder, rape, and kill. We are all gonna die anyway. Can’t see it from my backyard.
“Let the japs fish them out. Who cares. They (WE) will find some other bottom feeder to eat after the whales are gone. We are a self destructive species.”
true words. as an amatuer historian I see time and time again throughout human’s 150,000 yr existence evidence of our self-destructive nature. it is part of our soul. it doesn’t matter if your ancestors expanded out from Europe, Africa, Asia, or if you’re part the indiginous peoples: we all have it in us and this makes us masters of the earth and everything on it. it also makes us capable of Holocausts and the gouging out of a strangers eyes with your thumbs.
for this reason I try to do what I can to encourage human permanent settlement and expansion into outer space: only into infinite will our appetites be sated: new worlds to plunder, new oceans to over-fish,
a never ending expansion of the virus called humanity: even for a billion years after our own sun is gone.
