AMO Pension

Brothers and Sisters
I posted last week with some information from a friend, former shipmate, and now financial advisor. He spent some time looking around and came up with a couiple of conclusions and a few questions.This is it for me, I leave tomorrow and Bill doesn’t want to hear from me until Christmas !

He does not have a lot of experience with multiple employer plans. He said that almost all of the rules are carry overs from the Taft-Hartley Act with some modifications. The so called Defined Contribution plan looks like it is directly linked to the current DB plan,for funding purposes. The charts and graphs are boiler plate cut and paste stuff from the IRS. Basically the Feds have forms that ask for yes or no answers. If all the answers are YES then your plan will probably get a good review. If there are some NO answers then there is some explaiing to do. Taft Hartley allows for fairly liberal contribution / distribution rules and these rules are defined within the collective bargaining agreements. Basically he can’ts see why the DC plan would have to allow participation by the lump sum receipents unless they WANT to let them in the plan. If AMO wanted to withhold their participation they could file with the IRS and explain why. They may not even need to file. Depending on the rules of AMO plan, this decision could be made by the board of trustees. They could probably make a case by explaining the circumstances and by showing that withholding the lump summers contributions would speed up the funding of the DB plan THE FASTER the Better says the FED ). After which a true DB plan could be in place with 100% participation. Here is the catch the employer trustees may be demanding that the lump summers participate so that they can maintain their senior people. So if they presented a weak case it would fail, if they want to exempt the lumpers they probably could.
The reality is that nobody cares about new employees. They must be allowed to participate but even after several years they will have minimum dollars of their own, but will have made huge contributions to the DB plan and most will leave the maritime trades anyway. Which creates new problems.
Bill feels that this is worth looking into. He also feels that this is one reason that there is little “official” discussion of the issue. the words “non-descrimination” can get you a long way.

After reading this thread he wants to caution that there was probably nothing illegal done. He gets a kick out of the bashing ! He does feel that if the math he could muster is correct, the pension plan has been poorly advised. Bill reminded me many times that this type of business is a managers dream. DB plan, 401(k), MBP this is a jewel of business. He feels that many mistakes were probably made. I mentiioned the industry warnings in my previous post. He would like to know if the advisor had a role in the decision to allow the plan to be deliberately underfunded for years, did he play a role in the permitting of SIU participation in the lump sum pension. ( this decision could have been made at the trustee level by invoking reciprocity language in Taft Hartley) If this was a board decision it was a horrible one.
If it was an advisor decision he should be a past advisor. If if was a trustee decision, they just decided to raid the plan for sport , and it was a bloody raid ! Plain and simple. But probably not illegal. Highly immorral, with the real information, they had. I don’t think you can shame these guys. By the way, Bill’s opinion is that if the plan experienced less than around 14-15 % gain in 2009 they are still holding on to some toxic junk. Now consider an arrangement where the administrator was taking orders from the union and the advisor was taking orders from everyone.! Now there is a real conspiracy for you. Get a different advisor, get a differnt administrator. They let Rome burn on this deal. Of course they just might not want a loose cannon running around spilling the cannonballs !

The only way to know what went on is to get copies of the trustees meetings minutes. You could ask for them but it would probably take a judge to get them Then there is another lawsuit !. The information may or may not solve the problem but the cause of the problem, would be revealed. This could also solve the mystery of how AMO plans could spend 10 million dollars for swamp land (OK Ocean access) . Remember they had to get IRS permission to divert the money. They could have probably received a permit to divert it into the pension instead. The Union could have sold the land to a real buyer and Everybody Makes Money ! instead they let the DB drown. The only way to find this out would be through a direct confrontation, debate style ! Or is everyboby afraid of this ? Have some courage.

I have to finish packing, so here I go. In case anybody reads this I suggest placing a sailing DB participant member on the board of trustees. They can be easily trained ( we are not all totally stupid) have them serve one year terms and report to the membership.
2. Track the progress of the DB rehabilitation monthly in the union paper. Use the cartoon guy, he can come up with something. This might make people feel better .
3, Stop wastimg money and get new advisors. These guys have already made plenty. Cast them off. It’s a new day, a new era, a new opportuity, Seize It !
4 The candidates tout transparency so be transparent not shallow. Let us know what is really goingg on.
5 Union and Plans , Stop buying land, condos, houses, horses, sports cars, helicopters, fast women, good whiskey, super sized fries, and big milkshakes ! Be economical show the membership that every once in a while you do realize that you work for us. Hav a little skim milk, take a cab, stay at a $100.00 hotel, rent an apartment, eat a hot dog. Try being more like us. Maybe we will buy you the good whiskey once in a while. After the debate !
Good Sailing
I’m holding out hope and my ballot until mid-november .

Good stuff Unta!

Just a short note to say “stay safe and smooth sailing”…

Let’s change now - before it is too late!

Agreed, Let’s change now - before it is too late!

[QUOTE=Pensionless;22885]There are AMO union election in 2010, don’t vote for anyone who has a buyout or " shelved pension" they don’t have the same interest as all the members who have gotten the " sorry, but you have to work till you are 65 and maybe we will buy out your defined plan with our formula made up by the people who ruined yours and your families future in the first place"
Meanwhile the administration gets huge pension contribution for a lousy job. When the administration wants more money they just up the dues and take in more applicants.
Don’t reward failure!! Vote them all out. They will say they are the only ones with experience, some experience, how could anyone do worse? Besides maybe Senators and Congressmen along with shipping company reps would actually like to deal with people that have actually gone to sea in the last 20 years.[/QUOTe

I don’t think it should be about who got their buyout, or who has their own financial security. I believe this election is about getting some integrity back into that office. Its about getting somebody who has some ‘sweat equity’ in this union. Somebody who actually has a license and has been past a sea buoy in their career. Somebody who knows what we go through out here. And… someone who is honest.
I don’t think those individuals who took their buyouts should be penalized. Any one of you people would’ve done the same. I think the AMC slate, with their wide range of WORKING candidates, is our perfect choice. Our only choice. Think about it. Kiefer? Where is his license?
What the hell does he know about what we do out there? Leonard? He has proven who he is already. No spine. No integrity. No soul.
Gremelsbacker? He burned ballots. He had immunity. He still represents you. Can you believe it? Still there!? Burned ballots! Your Ballots!
The only way this union can get back on track is for someone who is actually interested in saving it to get into the driver’s seat. Period.
And the only way for this election to work the way elections are intended to, is to get out and vote. Because… they burn ballots. They disqualify ballots. They use those ballots, that weren’t submitted, for themselves. Maybe we should ask ourselves, ‘Why did they need to burn ballots?’ The answer is clear. Nobody wants those thieving scumbags speaking for us. They are an embarrassment. They lie, steal, and live the good life while we sit back and take it. Why do we need a new admin building during this union downturn? Why don’t you ask Sacco. He can answer that for you. Pretty soon, he’ll be answering all our questions. If you let him. Get out and vote. Vote AMC.

[QUOTE=Hearnia;42549]I’m not “an AMO rep.” Yes ships come and go (sale, scrap, OPA 90 deadlines, charters changing hands). It happens all the time, the nature of the business and everyone knows it. The AMO has had a net gain through it all which is good for everyone except Jack Hearn and the AMC. Your conspiracy theories about the SIU make Hearn look almost rational.[/QUOTE]

Conspiracy theories? What does AMO-SIUNA stand for? Hearnia, you are a clown.

Steamer, you are so right. But when have rules ever been a factor where AMO was concerned? Aren’t there pensioners holding down jobs right now in the union when the laws specifically state thats prohibited?

Soooooo many good, intelligent posts on this site. AMO members are horrified and EXTREMELY pissed off at the pathetic pension estimates they are receiving, none of which has any guarantee attached to it. Seems to me the only one with any guarantee is Bethel, who laughs at the membership while he sees his salary increase on an annual basis, while hardworking seagoing members suck hind tete. Pensions, family financial security destroyed, hopes for the future destroyed, and yet AMO has the SAME incompetent boobs managing our pension plan. Go figure.

The AMO “rag” brags about “new jobs”, leaving out the fact that many jobs are being lost on a regular basis, perhaps not the fault of anyone, but still a fact that should be addressed in the only means we have to receive true and honest data (ha-ha, that’s a joke). Nothing is mentioned about some of the downright piss poor wages being paid on some of the new tankers. Let’s see the AMO rag list the wage scales of some of the newer contracts, like the “State class” tankers built in Nassco. The guys I have heard from are disgusted at being forced to work for such lousy wages, and yet AMO expects them to wear the “bullseye” required to sail on ANY tanker these days…

Contracts still suck, and the members are supposed to be “happy to have a job”. Bethel is so far off the mark; obviously he has lost touch with the reality faced by the seagoing member every day - if he EVER knew or even cared. So long as he has “his” - and obviously the Trustees and company reps must be happy with the way he has screwed the membership - then all is well in AMO world… perhaps the new Union headquarters will have “virtual reality” screens; that way AMO members can walk in and view the false reality that is continually being shoved down their throats…

Why bother reading any of the crap spewed forth from the YChange Bethel spinning wheel, when the membership HAS no choice - change now, or forget about ANY future except one in which piss poor management is rewarded with an ever increasing salary, a NEW pension plan to benefit those who have already received their buyouts - and God help yaw’ll if he is re-elected…

Forget about what is spewed forth by the Ychange garbage - it is a simple matter of the “Rich get richer, and the poor get poorer”… a very simple concept and one which ever member needs to heed, or suffer the consequences…

Get your dues paid, and hope that your ballot is counted… send it certified, copy it, scan your bar code… You mayn need it if the electino is stolen again. Ooops - I mean a new resolution to make sure the “insiders” are re-elected…

Let’s just keep from saying anything negative about the AMO administration or their incompetence lest these posts get deleted. They do advertise on this site.

We just had contract talks in south florida, instead having out of town union members stay at the school. Everybody stayed in hotels for 3 days !! all for 2.5 % per year for 3 years .my two cents when i had a pay /contract problem, Bethel and his henchman did nothing to help me and when i confronted them in person about pension payout and pay problem he waddled off into his elevator. Does any one want stand out front and hold signs for Jacks Hearn and his group!!

Hey Queequeg, whoever you are - one of the biggest reasons that AMO has been able to treat the membership like serfs for sooooo many years is due to implied threats of job loss, being “blackballed” or expelled from the union. It is only because of the “internet age” that we finally have a chance to discuss issues openly on a forum such as Gcaptain. Though I respect your opinion, and the more dialogue we have the better, I believe we need to take full advantage of this opportunity while there is still a chance to save our union.

This is probably the LAST time that hardworking AMO members have the chance for any future in a union that actually looks out for its members, instead of fleecing them. There is not much we can do about posts being removed, except copying them, saving them - and reposting any that come up missing, but what we CAN do is fight for our futures and SOUND THE GENERAL ALARM, as the ship will sink otherwise.

The latest in many examples of the arrogance (and ignorance) of our so-called leadership was posted in todays version of the Ychange Bethel now email, and I quote:

“Any honest audit of AMO by any honest accountants would conclude that AMO
has never been in better financial condition. Union assets are managed so
well that AMO membership dues remain the lowest among the three merchant
marine officers’ unions (by several thousand dollars per member per year),
AMO is free of mortgages and other debt, operating costs are declining
steadily and the bottom line is growing.”

Anyone that has the NERVE and AUDACITY to claim the union has never been in better financial condition - after FLEECING the membership of their financial future by allowing the pension plan to be decimated - needs to learn what it is like to work for a living, instead of having their wages increase commenserate with the suffering of those who rely on their so-called honest leadership.

If AMO is in such fine financial condition as stated by the Bethel camp, then I argue it is “fine” only for those on the inside who reap the benefits, whilst the membership works blindly to maintain the high standards under which our leadership has been accustomed to living.

It’s not “all about the jobs” - it is all about the membership working for wages commenserate with the risks and sacrifices that they make every day at sea… we are not an “employment center” - we are “supposed to be” a union that stands up and FIGHTS for the rights of its members, NOT tells them to suck it up and deal with lousy contracts just because…

It is time for change.

[QUOTE=Turk 182;43492]
It’s not “all about the jobs” - it is all about the membership working for wages commenserate with the risks and sacrifices that they make every day at sea… we are not an “employment center” - we are “supposed to be” a union that stands up and FIGHTS for the rights of its members, NOT tells them to suck it up and deal with lousy contracts just because… [/QUOTE]

Turk182

I wholeheartedly agree with everything you have been saying all along in your posts and thank you for them…your quote above to me sums up the AMO in a nutshell.

I am speaking as an outsider who actually started as kid on AMO ships way back in the bad old Ray McKay days. What I want to ask has it not been the AMO business model from the start to bring in as many kids fresh out of the schools who only want to “sail on their licenses” and don’t care that they don’t get paid shit. I remember Lovino (sp?), IMC, Bay Shipmanagement and course, Sea Mob who paid wages lower than dirt but there were always kids to take the jobs. Of course, those kids got used to not making money sailing but they got their “seatime to upgrade” in lieu of pay. It ultimately became a self perpetuating cycle. Bring in more applicants than needed, force on them low pay and if they woke up to the fact that they were making half of what MMP or MEBA officers got, then they could just take a hike because there always were more kids in the pipeline eager to earn their big tonnage ticket. Ultimately some of those kids made it onto decent ships and built a good sailing career for themselves but I have always looked at the AMO being much more of as you say “an employment center” than a real “union” (has the AMO gone out on any company EVER?) and of course there always was the rampant corruption that the AMO has been famous for from the very start. It has sadly caused the AMO mariners to be a bit tainted as a result which the members did not deserve for what they got stuck with as they “sucked it up” and dealt with the “lousy contracts”.

I am pulling that the Hearn slate gets elected and wished I could cast a ballot for him in November. I certainly hope that once in, having a true master at the helm of the AMO will go a very long way to rehabilitate their image and reputation.

Well it is good to see a lot of new posters here and hopefully everyone is getting their votes in as it will be the ONLY way we will actually get any change in this union. [B]The Ychangenow folks are banking on people complaining but at the end of the day not bothering to get their vote out[/B]…maybe they are at sea or their dues are not current. The latest rag has the contact information to get a duplicate ballot, it can also be found in this forum. Time and time again it has been stated that your dues must be current for the year in order to make your vote count.

At this point all I’ve been doing is contacting friends and asking them if they have voted yet, providing them with the info to get their ballot and keeping on their case with follow up communications on THEIR ballot. If this election goes to Bethel and his goons then anyone who did not vote had better not bitch about the squalor we’ve lived in for all these years and allowed to continue!

Contact your friends out on the various ships and places like Diego, Saipan and ROS ships nested up and down the coast. Ask them if anything has been discussed about the election on their ships. Encourage them to bring up the pension issues with their friends, tell them to pass the info on how to find this forum and most of all encourage them to spread the word to get the vote out. The current administration is hoping all you do is bitch so that they can rob the rank and file for another couple of years (No, they will never have enough! Why do you think they set up the new pension to their benefit!)

Lastly we better hope the high powered light machine, inept sheriffs “Guarding” the ballot box and slick union officals are not repeating their efforts from the past that are found on line if you search for the information…and it is not the simple explanation that has been put out by the current administration about burning ballots with misspelled names on it…you’re a fool if you believe that story!

[B]YES to CHANGE NOW

National President: Jack Hearn
National Secretary Treasurer: Jim Schwartz
National Executive Vice President: Matt Hight[/B]
[B]National Vice President, DeepSea: Mike Wachter[/B]
[B]National Vice President, Inland: Tim Reid[/B]
[B]NationalVicePresident,Government: Rich Horne[/B]
[B]National Vice President,Great Lakes: John Clemons[/B]

Turk 182 (a Denis Hamill or Timothy Hutton fan?):
Union finances are separate from benefit money. There is no link between the AMO treasury and the pension fund.
Here is what Turk 182 left out of his post:

Promises become “possible options”

Jack Hearn and his AMO Membership Committee are back on their campaign Web site with a recap of their financial management and retirement strategies – eight points, none with details or specifics on how Jack and the AMC would pay for what they propose.

According to their Web post, Jack and the AMC would “audit the entire AMO financial status,” make “frugal decisions” and end “excessive” pay for AMO officials. “Report findings in 100 days,” Jack and the AMC said.

Any honest audit of AMO by any honest accountants would conclude that AMO has never been in better financial condition. Union assets are managed so well that AMO membership dues remain the lowest among the three merchant marine officers’ unions (by several thousand dollars per member per year), AMO is free of mortgages and other debt, operating costs are declining steadily and the bottom line is growing.

Jack and the AMC have said that, by cutting official pay, a Hearn-AMC administration would save our union $1 million in its first term. But our administration has already reduced overhead by $1.7 million in one year, and any savings Jack and the AMC project would be wiped out by the untold cost of transferring AMO job development, collective bargaining, benefit fund administration and lobbying to unidentified consultants for an unspecified period – a key element of the Hearn-AMC “platform.”

With respect to retirement, Jack and the AMC had until their latest post promised to buy pension credits for benefit calculation purposes for nearly 4,000 participants in the defined benefit AMO Pension Plan in for 2010 and beyond, despite the Plan’s “critical” funding status as defined by federal law. But this promise has since been reduced to one of several “possible options.”

Another Hearn-AMC promise scaled down to a “possible option” was to make the AMO Medical Plan the primary health insurance carrier for all AMO retirees, regardless of whether these retirees are eligible for Medicare or for health care benefits available through post-AMO employment. This would break the AMO Medical Plan – sooner, rather than later.

There are two simple truths at work here: the Hearn-AMC retirement proposal would cost the AMO Pension Plan an estimated $100 million a year, in addition to the cost of providing monthly benefits to retired AMO members and survivors; if the AMO Pension Plan were able to do this, the Plan would not be in the Pension Protection Act’s “red zone,” and we would not be having this discussion.

A footnote: the pension proposals offered by Jack and the AMC were developed hastily after the Hearn-AMC campaign said they would pattern the AMO Pension Plan after the United Mine Workers of America Pension Fund – and after we reported accurately that the Mine Workers’ fund had gone broke, that 120,000 mine workers and their dependents would lose their retirement and medical benefits, and that a West Virginia Congressman was seeking a federal bailout of the Mine Workers’ fund.

Tom Bethel, National President
José Leonard, National Secretary-Treasurer
Bob Kiefer, National Executive Vice President
Joe Gremelsbacker, National Vice President (Deep Sea)
Don Cree, National Vice President (Great Lakes)
Charles Murdock, National Vice President (Inland Waters)
Mike Murphy, National Vice President (Government Relations)

“C.Captain” brings up some good points about AMO. I know I definitely joined AMO because I wanted to have a better chance at working. In my mind, the advantages of sailing AMO outweighed the advantages of sailing MM&P, namely: steady work (most jobs are semi-permanent), and therefore a steadier income; not having to transport myself to a hiring hall, since AMO jobs are dispatched by telephone and generally companies pay transportation from home to the job; and, of course, better opportunities to move up in the world. Also, at the time, the 20-and-out pension was definitely appealing. I definitely thought about trying to break in with MM&P, but decided I didn’t like the idea of sitting in a hall for months (on my own dime) waiting for a job. There was definitely a trade-off there. Up until this pension thing hit, it was working out pretty well for me.

I’m curious if anyone has any info about AMO’s history with regards to relationships with other unions. The road I’m going down here is, has AMO always been kind of isolated from other, more union-like unions? I’ve heard that when a company tries to screw with MM&P, the ILWU will step up and do their own thing in support of them. To my knowledge, AMO has never had that kind of backup. We certainly don’t now–anyone expect the SIU to step up to the plate for us? The SIU is just an unlicensed version of AMO, except with more intelligent leadership (read: better at not getting caught).

My ultimate pipe dream would be a merger of all three officer unions, and then make it the only game in town. A company wants a mate or engineer, they go to this union and ONLY this union. ILWU can do it–why can’t we? Then, and only then, can we work on these shady contracts (and, from what I understand, ALL THREE unions have shady contracts, AMO just has more of them). Obviously there would be some issues to be resolved. How is the elected leadership structured, how many positions, etc.? Does this union go to the MM&P/MEBA physical hiring hall system, does it use the AMO telephonic system, or a hybrid? How about jobs–are most jobs rotary as with MM&P/MEBA, or permanent like AMO, and do those holding AMO-style permanent jobs get to keep them under a grandfather system? How do the various benefit plans get merged such that nobody gets unduly rewarded or shafted? But these are not insurmountable issues; mergers happen all the time in the corporate world, and our system hasn’t totally collapsed. The key is to have honest, open discussion amongst ALL union members, and realize it has to be the rank-and-file members who have to DEMAND this, because sure as hell the elected leadership won’t bring it up–too many people would lose their gravy train.

We must also demand that ALL aspects of union operation are open to ALL members–no more of this secretive, backdoor dealing behind our backs. We also can’t be afraid to throw out underperformers–if I fail to do my job properly, I get fired, so why do union official screwups (like, say, with a multi-million dollar pension plan) get a pass, PLUS get rewarded?

But first: we in the AMO must vote out ALL the bums. We’ll never solve our problems unless we get to the roots. I would also urge people to PHOTOCOPY their ballots before mailing them in. Get all your ducks in a row, because the union leadership will do all they can to tilt the election, including invoking technicalities.

"Promises become “possible options” " – The AMC slate are not liars. They don’t make empty promises.

" But our administration has already reduced overhead by $1.7 million in one year, " – Prove it! In reality, the overhead has soared all most 100% in 4 years under their reign of terror.

“…and any savings Jack and the AMC project would be wiped out by the untold cost of transferring AMO job development, collective bargaining, benefit fund administration and lobbying to unidentified consultants for an unspecified period…” Did I see lobbying? Goodness. Would those bills you were “lobbying” be bills later discovered having been thrown out 10 years earlier? If you want to go there, how much of our PAF was spent on who knows what when allegedly spent lobbying dead bills? Secondly, as far as unidentified consultants, they will not only be exponentially more competent, but also most likely free. And most importantly, honest.

“There are two simple truths at work here…” Really? Do you expect anyone to believe the truth from you clowns?

“A footnote: the pension proposals offered by Jack and the AMC were developed hastily after the Hearn-AMC campaign said they would pattern the AMO Pension Plan after the United Mine Workers of America Pension Fund – and after we reported accurately that the Mine Workers’ fund had gone broke, that 120,000 mine workers and their dependents would lose their retirement and medical benefits, and that a West Virginia Congressman was seeking a federal bailout of the Mine Workers’ fund.” ---- This looks to be an obvious attack on Joe Conners. That man is not only a Taft-Hartley expert, but also undeniably honest. A Footnote: He left that MW fund back in the 80’s. Using your flawed rationale, didn’t AMO advertise and tout our fund as being in ‘great shape’ , with nothing to worry about? How many years ago was that? 20? No. It was months before they came out with the bombshell.

Tom Bethel, National President Stole the election with referendum. Can’t produce a License. Lies to his membership. Arrogant. Hothead. Raised his wages over 30% in just 4 years. Matching 401-k Oh yeah…never been to sea.
José Leonard, National Secretary-Treasurer Got bought off. Has sole responsibility over management of YOUR pension money.
Bob Kiefer, National Executive Vice President This clown has no idea what you do at sea. Because like Bethel, never been past the sea buoy. Anyone ever see their licenses?
Joe Gremelsbacker, National Vice President (Deep Sea) Burned your ballots. Enough said.

The more I read Hearnia the more I can’t get the following phrase out of my mind. Methinks thou dost protest too much.

View from the Lakes:
Forget Shakespeare, read something relevant and factual from ychangenow:

Other unions’ pensions

“Competitor maritime officer unions have robust pensions and memberships.”

This is the word of Jack Hearn and his AMO Membership Committee (AMC) in an October 25 post on their campaign Web site. Like so many other statements made by Jack and the AMC since they went live with their third AMO election campaign in April 2010, this one was completely inaccurate – Jack and the AMC demonstrated once again how little they know and how poorly prepared they are for elective office in our union.

AMO members who observed meetings of the AMO national executive board in Washington DC two weeks ago heard International Organization of Masters, Mates and Pilots President Timothy Brown report on the “critical” or “red zone” funding status of the MM&P retirement fund under the Pension Protection Act of 2006 and on the nationwide retirement crisis that has crippled 80 percent of defined benefit pension plans. Capt. Brown noted that, a year ago, only 20 percent of such traditional retirement benefit funds were deficient.

The Marine Engineers’ Beneficial Association’s retirement fund is sound for now, but there is a day of reckoning on the near horizon. Massive unfunded liabilities accumulated under previous MEBA administrations will require staggering employer contributions to the MEBA Pension Trust within two years under a “best case” scenario.

Shrinking employment bases in the MM&P and MEBA are aggravating the pension difficulties dogging these unions.

While I am uncomfortable discussing “competitor maritime officer unions” in the context of an AMO election campaign, I must set the record straight on this specific issue. If what Jack and the AMC said about the other unions’ pension funds is typical of the information Jack and the AMC are getting from their unidentified “nationally recognized pension managers, labor attorneys and actuaries,” then seagoing AMO members and their families have even more to fear from the prospect of a Hearn-AMC administration than I had thought.

For additional telling perspective, consider the fact that Jack and the AMC this summer held up the United Mine Workers of America Pension Fund as a model of what the defined benefit AMO Pension Plan could be in their hands. Jack and the AMC had valued the Mine Workers’ fund at $8.5 billion.

As we all know by now, the United Mine Workers of America Pension Fund is instead on the skids. An estimated 120,000 mine workers and their dependents are losing their retirement benefits and their health care coverage. A West Virginia Congressman is pressing for a federal bailout of the UMWA Pension Fund.

Tom Bethel

I probably shouldn’t contribute to this bar fight but since you brought my union into it I think it’s fair enough for me to throw a chair across the room.

You say the MMP pension fund is in critical condition and MEBA might require higher future contributions. OK, so much for crystal ball gazing, how does this justify what sure sounds like a successful raid by the AMO “leadership” on its own pension fund that so many here claim has already happened?

My pension fund is still delivering what it promised all those many years ago. Is yours?

Hearnia, how can you use the idea of future, potential, possible, maybe, worst case, bad luck, if things go wrong might happen situations to justify or negate what reads like a Viking raid that plundered the assets of dues paying sailing members that seems to have occurred on the past? That’s just bizarre …

Steamer,

When you get paid (more then the average person working at sea!) by the current administration you see things through a different light!

Queequeg, or anyone else out there: if you can produce anything in which the Bethel camp attacks Joe Connors, please post it here.
Steamer: MMP President Tim Brown said the MMP pension plan is underfunded, I didn’t. As for MEBA, take the question up with Keefe and ask him about the pension status of the Interlake officers. You want to “throw a chair across the room” in this “bar fight?” Take that up with Keefe too. He’s been known to enjoy a good brawl.