AMO Pension

WOW!!

Steamer, that was one of the best posts I have seen to date, and I have to admit I am ignorant of that about which you speak, although I suspect it is in reference to an earlier post with an accronym I did not recognize. I will review and research after I finish completing a lot more useless and redundant paperwork for the day.

From the global perspective, you are 100% correct in my opinion, 3 officer’s unions supporting 3 sets of elected officials with relatively few members in the rank and file. For me, first things first. We gotta throw out the trash before we can think about rebuilding. Once the incumbents are removed from their thrones, then and only then can we begin to clean up behind the curtain, removing more self-serving trash from the company trustees, and then look to start anew.

Thank you for your input.

I agree Steamer, look what I found this morning after my morning coffee. Steamer saw it coming and here it is:

http://coffeetime.forumcircle.com/viewtopic.php?t=510

I suggest we get all we can in on this ASAP and respond! This is an emergency!

BTW Bethal you missed another one!

I agree that the issue being discussed in posts #236-238 is shocking, I too did not pick up on the acronym in that earlier post! Where is this in the AMO currents? Or on both parties web sites for that matter? I got an AMO Current update this afternoon with nothing but so info on new pictures added to the website…who cares! I found the following to be scary in my research:

“SUP next suggests that this rulemaking creates a de facto second register under the U.S. flag by allowing the employment of foreign mariners on U.S. vessels who may be paid less and employed under lower standards than U.S. mariners. SUP states, correctly, that neither the statute nor the rule requires non-resident alien mariners to be employed under the same collective bargaining agreement as presently applies to U.S. mariners on the same vessels.Show citation box
[B]The Coast Guard has no authority to require any vessel owner/operator to employ mariners under a collective bargaining agreement. As long as the vessel owner/operator complies with the provisions of the International Labor Organization’s Merchant Shipping (Minimum Standards) Convention of 1976 (ILO 147), as required in section 15.530(b) of the rule, they are under no obligation to provide the same compensation to non-resident aliens as they do to U.S. mariners on these vessels.[/B] This issue is discussed in more detail below in the “Regulatory Planning and Review” section, under “Direct Impacts.”Show citation box”

From the Coffeetime link above IRT the large passenger vessel crewing. Now with officers being the target I can see ALL the companies jumping all over cheap labor and year long contracts for all involved. Instead of the US raising the bar around the world we will sink to the savagery of third world shipping with the USCG helping to push the agenda forward. If you read into the link for the passenger ships you see them stating issues addressed by the SUP (At least they placed a comment on the issue so BZ to them!) and then the USCG using the laws wording or rulings to dodge points addressed by the SUP. You really need to shift through the entire Federal Register on the topic to see how NCL was able to ram this into a ruling with the USCG assisting.

This is a MAJOR issue on the horizon and we ALL need to follow up on this with the limited time remaining for comments but this is a forum on the AMO pension, the different views from the different parties and we should keep on point for this issue. Being that the time for comments closes before our election we should start another forum on gcaptain.com and maybe try to gain the attention of ALL the unions on this issue along with the maritime schools to create mass mailings against such a proposal (I might have spotted one already on the topic!)

As for other comments on how this forum has got off track about the AMO pension and all the mud slinging I can see how some are disheartened but if you following the comments from the beginning you can see that there have been a lot of suggestions since the forum was started. I always encourage everyone I know to read the entire forum and use it to form a decision on who they vote for. With almost 19,000 views at this point you can bet that this has started many conversations across the AMO fleet and hopefully ideas on how to best move forward continue to be addressed here and out in the fleet. The election will be over before we know it and we will still be left with a pension crisis to be addressed by whoever wins. Hopefully some of these ideas are incorporated into how our union moves forward and we can come to a point where FAIRNESS is a part of the pension plan…I have NOT seen that in the current proposal being sold to the majority!

Thanks to all the new posters on this forum for your views and keep the discussion going!

[B]YES to CHANGE NOW

National President: Jack Hearn [/B]
[B]National Secretary Treasurer: Jim Schwartz[/B]
[B]National Executive Vice President: Matt Hight[/B]
[B]National Vice President, DeepSea: Mike Wachter[/B]
[B]National Vice President, Inland: Tim Reid[/B]
[B]NationalVicePresident,Government: Rich Horne[/B]
[B]National Vice President,Great Lakes: John Clemons[/B]

A friend of mine from MEBA copied a email he received regarding this issue and I have copied the how to comment section here on the forum. I suggest we all do this ASAP or we’re all out of jobs.

You may submit comments identified by docket number [B]USCG–2010–0797[/B] using any one of the following methods:

(1) Federal eRulemaking Portal:http://www.regulations.gov.

  a. To submit your comment online, go to [B]http://www.regulations.gov or click [HERE](http://www.regulations.gov/search/Regs/home.html#home)

[/B]
b. Click the check box “open for comment/submission”

c. In the “Enter Keyword or ID:” box, type in [B]USCG–2010–0797[/B]

d. Click‘‘Search’’

   e. Scroll down the page to view comments already made, submit your  comment by click submit a comment under the actions heading   column.

(2) Fax: 202–493–2251.

(3) Mail: Docket Management Facility (M–30), U.S. Department of Transportation, West Building Ground Floor, Room W12–140, 1200 New Jersey Avenue , SE., Washington ,
DC 20590–0001.

(4) Hand delivery: Same as mail address above, between 9 a.m. and 5 p.m., Monday through Friday, except Federal holidays. The telephone number is 202–366–9329.

[B]We need to flood them with comments, Jack if you have an email list you need to fire it up and get busy brother. [/B]

OK everybody I made the new thread here: http://gcaptain.com/forum/professional-mariner-forum/5798-foreign-officers-ships.html#post42933

This way we can keep this thread on track, but please visit the above link, tell all your friends as we are now in serious trouble

Mariner 173, Greenhorn:
You guys are WAY off on this. Maybe you should READ things like the Notice of Proposed Rulemaking before you comment on them. Under the IMO, the Coast Guard has to come up with “procedures to recognize STCW certificates” issued by other governments. Every country that participates in the IMO has to do the same. This DOES NOT alter longstanding U.S. law that requires U.S. citizen merchant mariners for 75 percent of a U.S.-flag vessel complement. This DOES NOT say that the Coast Guard will issue U.S. merchant mariner credentials to foreign nationals so they can replace U.S. citizen officers. The SIU exception referred to on this thread applied ONLY to steward department on cruise ships, and it set some tight restrictions on the exception, including a ban on “watchstanding, engine room duty watch, or vessel navigation functions.” The proposed rule would waive the U.S. manning requirement on offshore oil vessels in the Gulf of Mexico BEYOND THE CONTINENTAL SHELF, WHERE THERE IS NO U.S.-FLAG SERVICE ANYWAY, on offshore vessels based in foreign ports (DUH!!) and on other vessels when U.S. merchant mariners are not available (THIS WAIVER AUTHORITY DURING CREW SHORTAGES HAS BEEN AVAILABLE FOR MANY YEARS UNDER FEDERAL LAW).

[QUOTE=Hearnia;42953]You guys are WAY off on this. Maybe you should READ things like the Notice of Proposed Rulemaking before you comment on them.[/QUOTE]

I suggest your take your own advice or have someone read it to you.

[QUOTE=Hearnia;42953]Mariner 173, Greenhorn:You guys are WAY off on this. Maybe you should READ things like the Notice of Proposed Rulemaking before you comment on them.[/QUOTE]

[B]**the concern here is not so much about what it “says” as about what it “doesn’t say”!![/B]

You’re kidding, right?

In January 2009 the AMO administration was on record as stating the pension plan had no accumulated funding deficiency, nor one foreseen over the next 7 years. Less than 3 months later in April 2009, AMO came out and stated our pension plan was going to be declared in the red zone - and yet we are supposed to believe ANYTHING you say from then on?

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Let’s change now…

I was just perusing the sister forum re Foreign Officers working on U.S. Flag ships, and found the following correspondence from the VP of OMSA:

QUOTE

September 27, 2010

The Offshore Marine Service Association (OMSA) is the national trade association which serves as the voice for the U.S. flag vessels that support the offshore energy sector. The association represents more than 250 companies that own and operate vessels, perform towing activities and provide services and
supplies in support of the production, exploration and development of offshore natural resources.

We welcome this US Coast Guard initiative to implement STCW Regulation I/10 and allow 46 USC 8103 to be fully utilized. We urge that maximum speed be used to allow at least a partial process of endorsing the mariner credentials of non-US mariners sailing on a US-flag vessel to prevent any additional vessel detentions. We understand that full implementation may require additional time.

To answer the first question posed, any vessel working in the offshore oil and mineral industry outside US waters is subject to local cabotage laws, similar to our Jones Act, which often requires that at least a portion of the crew be citizens of the country exercising jurisdiction over the outer continental shelf oil field. So this means an Offshore Supply Vessel (OSV) – which includes Supply Boats, Seismic Vessels, and Liftboats, crewboats/small passenger vessels, and towing vessels would commonly seek to use these endorsements. There may be additional classes of vessels not covered by OMSA membership.

We have asked the OMSA membership to provide the answers to your questions 2 and 3 directly to the docket. We also urged them to identify the one or two largest sources of mariner credentials in their vessel fleet to assist in prioritization of your efforts to establish agreements with other nations.

Again, we welcome this initiative and urge maximum speed in implementation of it.

Sincerely
Richard Wells
Vice President

UNQUOTE

Ahhhhhhhhhh,

As I was saying before my comments posted (not sure how), Ahhhhhhhh. No worries for us, since we are Deep Sea, unlicensed mariners. Oooooops, I forgot about the Inland folks, etc. Far be it for AMO to bring in foreigners - especially engineers, since we are so short of filling jobs! I just wonder how much a Filipino or Pakistani Chief Engineer will have to pay in dues??

First OMSA, then who is next?? Once the floodgates have acrack, watch out for the floods!!!

LOL, according to the paid employee of the current administration we are way off on what this ruling could ultimately mean. Remember the LNGs and how they pulled in Croatians and Poles in the end to fill the “Lower” engineering positions “Until” an American could be found…funny but those foreigners seemed to hold permanent jobs at the end of that cracker of a contract! Yes I mentioned the passenger unlicensed ruling and noted it in the post. I also spoke with a contact who is SIU and recently up at Piney Point where there are a bunch of guys on the beach looking for work…wonder how many positions are currently filled by foreigners on the one remaining US passenger ship? Who do you think NCL will hire in that situation…a guy willing to work for a third of the wages on a year long contract or a member of the SIU who wants to go home after four months, has medical coverage (Maybe) and a small vacation check that NCL will have to forward payments to the SIU to handle…the flood is coming!

Who are we to be talking about this anyway! Let the professionals currently running the AMO decide what is best for us, you see the excellent job they have done already…

OMSA is a leading defender of the Jones Act, which as you know (or SHOULD know) requires U.S. citizen mariners.
Under the proposed rule the Coast Guard has to come up with a way to verify STCW credentials issued by other countries under the IMO. All IMO countries must do the same thing. Under longstanding federal law, legal aliens residing in the U.S. and deemed qualified by the Coast Guard can hold up to 25 percent of the unlicensed crew jobs on a U.S. vessel. The law specifically excludes these resident aliens from working as officers. The law requiring U.S. citizen merchant mariners on U.S. vessels HAS NOT CHANGED. The law requiring U.S. citizen merchant mariners on U.S. vessels CAN NOT CHANGE WITHOUT AN ACT OF CONGRESS SIGNED BY THE PRESIDENT. No one in Washington has proposed this. The Coast Guard CANNOT ACT UNILATERALLY TO CHANGE THE U.S. CITIZEN MANNING REQUIREMENT written into federal law. If anyone knows of a case where an officer on the NCL cruise ship was displaced by a foreign national hired as a dishwasher or entertainer, please post the info here.
You guys are scaring some people unnecessarily and defaming others unfairly.

Don’t be absurd. The USCG can verify credentials the same way I do it several times a week. I send copies of the certificate, or enter the certificate information on the online “certificate checker” provided by nearly every maritime authority on the White List. Those that do not have an online version respond quickly to faxed or emailed information. The USCG only very recently joined the rest of the world in providing for the verification of certificates.

Under longstanding federal law, legal aliens residing in the U.S. and deemed qualified by the Coast Guard can hold up to 25 percent of the unlicensed crew jobs on a U.S. vessel. The law specifically excludes these resident aliens from working as officers.

The NPRM makes no reference to legal residency or citizenship. Many US flagged vessels are not engaged in the Jones Act trade and when the USCG allows foreign officers to replace me on those vessels they will enter US ports in the same category as any other foreign officer serving on a foreign flag vessel, they will have a seaman’s visa or a B1/B2. Why on earth would these guys want to live in the US and pay our taxes when for the most part their home country exempts income from mariners and they don’t have to buy medical or health insurance?

The law requiring U.S. citizen merchant mariners on U.S. vessels HAS NOT CHANGED. The law requiring U.S. citizen merchant mariners on U.S. vessels CAN NOT CHANGE WITHOUT AN ACT OF CONGRESS SIGNED BY THE PRESIDENT. No one in Washington has proposed this. The Coast Guard CANNOT ACT UNILATERALLY TO CHANGE THE U.S. CITIZEN MANNING REQUIREMENT written into federal law.

The NPRM has been posted in its entirety several times in different threads. What part of “(C) Any other vessel if the Secretary determines, after an investigation, that qualified seamen who are citizens of the United States are not available.” are you unable to understand?

I think if you believe a dishwasher or tap dancer will replace a mate or engineer then this entire conversation really is pointless. If AMO has told you that they can get you a dishwashing license then you have provided a new insight into the issues that are tearing that “union” apart.

Good stuff Steamer!

QUOTE - I think if you believe a dishwasher or tap dancer will replace a mate or engineer then this entire conversation really is pointless. If AMO has told you that they can get you a dishwashing license then you have provided a new insight into the issues that are tearing that “union” apart. UNQUOTE

I have to take issue with your comment “tearing that union apart”, although I see you used " " around “union”. Perhaps it is only now that AMO members have finally seen their financial future decimated by a very unapologetic adminstration, with a president who has a salary almost 3 times the amount that can be expected by the majority of the senior most officers in that “Hiring Hall” they call a union. Maybe those guys are just coming around to how deeply they have been damaged by the heavy handed, corrupt methods by which that “union” has been run since its inception.

Perhaps they are finally understanding why it is time to “change now” while there is still time to salvage what is left…

[QUOTE=Turk 182;43005]I have to take issue with your comment “tearing that union apart”…[/QUOTE]

Fair enough, I apologize, it was a harsh statement based on my own frustration with a group that should be fighting just as hard to stop the CG buyout. There won’t be any scraps to fight over when American mariners have been outsourced.

Steamer, no need to apologize. I was agreeing with you, except in my opinion AMO has been more of a hiring hall than a union since its inception! Talk to any of the old guard, and you will learn how they have been screwed for decades…

[QUOTE=Turk 182;43014]Steamer, no need to apologize. [/QUOTE]

Well, this thread sort of belongs to the AMO guys and I shouldn’t barge into someone else’s house and start criticizing them.

But, that point aside, I certainly agree with you that AMO has never been anything more than an employment scam designed to convert “dues” to political contributions and create great personal wealth for a select few. And as a member of a legitimate maritime officer’s union that suffers from the impact of lowball AMO contracts, I do have a right to an opinion on how those contracts negatively effect me.

Good luck, I hope you guys can throw the scum back in the gutter where they belong.

Well for those who have not pulled the lever yet all I ask is that you wait for the slap in the face envelope with your “Buyout” number in it…[B]you’ll be discusted when you consider all the hard work and time YOU’VE spent out here and what it amounts to under the new plan being currently offered by this administration[/B]. Under your number are a number of disclaimers offering no guarantee to that number at the end of the day (We’ve got to fund those second pensions, double digit MPB funds and matching 401-ks for our leadership you know!) Remember this is coming from the guys who had the gall to tell the majority that all was well just months before announcing (through no fault of their own…lol) a total collapse of our pension. So I ask then where were the disclaimers on the bottoms of the letter for those who got their buyout? Why not stop the bleeding when a true “Run on the Bank” was realized before we ended up where we are at?

One person here remarked “You guys are scaring some people unnecessarily and defaming others unfairly.” I say this administration has done that ALL BY THEMSELVES!

[B]The tide has turned and hopefully it takes all the inept leadership right out to sea with it![/B]

[B]YES to CHANGE NOW

National President: Jack Hearn
National Secretary Treasurer: Jim Schwartz[/B]
[B]National Executive Vice President: Matt Hight[/B]
[B]National Vice President, DeepSea: Mike Wachter[/B]
[B]National Vice President, Inland: Tim Reid[/B]
[B]NationalVicePresident,Government: Rich Horne[/B]
[B]National Vice President,Great Lakes: John Clemons[/B]

AMO PENSION PLAN FINANCIALS

The AMO Pension Plan suffered major losses the past few years. The percentage of “funded liabilities” dropped from 80.7% on 01 October 2005 to 58.9% on 01 October 2008, a decrease of 21.8% or an average of 7.3% per year. AMO leadership has repeatedly claimed that the major losses suffered by the plan were “inevitable and unavoidable”. However, the available data raises questions as to whether the best interests of plan participants has been properly carried out by AMO investment advisors, and were adequately monitored by the Trustees who are charged with oversight.

In early 2009, the Trustees assured the membership that all was well, with no forseeable problems on the (7 year) horizon. The online edition of AMO Currents, dated 29 January 2009, contained the following excerpt from a letter sent by the Board of Trustees of the American Maritime Officers Pension Plan to all AMO Pension Plan participants. The letter was dated Jan. 26, 2009: “The funded percentage for the Plan as of October 1, 2007 exceeds 80%, and based on the valuation results as of October 1, 2007 an Accumulated Funding Deficiency does not exist and is not projected to occur within the next seven plan years. The projections used to make this determination were based on the facts and circumstances in effect on October 1, 2007. Reasonable actuarial methods and assumptions were used to project future results from this date.” A basic review of AMO financial data reveals funding and performance issues with the plan for the years prior to 2009, thus one must question why the Trustees would paint such a rosy picture and then, less than 3 months later, issue a statement by the Plans Director in AMO Currents dated 23 April 2009 that includes the following data: "Status of the AMO Pension Plan - Since the beginning of the stock market decline at the end of 2007, through March of 2009, the assets of the AMO Pension Plan have received a return of negative 31.8%. During this market decline, the Pension Plan has continued to pay monthly benefits in the range of $1.8 million to $2 million per month
for a total of 18 months, or approximately $33 million. Also during this period, the Pension Plan has paid out approximately $75 million in lump sum payments. At the beginning of the fiscal year starting October 1, 2007, the Pension Plan had assets of $525 million, and as of April 2009, the Pension Plan has assets of $300 million. From October 2007 through the first part of April 2009, the AMO Pension Plan has lost $160 million. The Pension Plan was over 90% funded for our fiscal year ending September 30, 2007. However, it is now projected that the Plan will be 60% to 65% funded by the end of the current fiscal year. It is estimated that 90% of all pension plans nationwide will be less than 65% funded.”

A review of AMO financial reports include data which indicate that the performance and strategy of the investment advisors is reviewed once per quarter by the Board of Trustees, and that the administration of the plan is the responsibility of the Board of Trustees. AMO Financial Statements indicate that: “The Plan’s investment portfolio includes derivative financial instruments such as collateralized mortgage obligations issued by U.S. governmental agencies…. the Plan’s management believes that the risk of loss is remote”. In light of the majority of these highly leveraged and securitized instruments dragging investors in to a financial quagmire, one must seriously question the “investment strategies” used by the AMO pension plan investment advisors.

To be fair, I suspect the majority of pension plans in the U.S. were equally deficient in their investment strategies and oversight, but as previously mentioned, hard working AMO members had every right to expect that the Board of Trustees would have done due diligence and made the decisions necessary to protect the pension plan. Meanwhile, the following data is extracted from various AMO financial reports, and the data points to a deteriorating financial condition of the pension plan for a number of years at least.

ACTUARIAL REPORT FOR YEAR ENDING 30 SEPT 2009

  1. Summary of Results
    (4) Current liability funded percentage.
    2005 – 80.7% 2006 – 75.1% 2007 – 70.5% 2008 – 58.9%
    NOTE Funded percentage DECREASED by 21.8% from 2005 – 2008, or an average of 7.3% per year. Not a good sign.

QUESTION - What was done to rectify the situation during each plan year?

  1. Plan Funding Liabilities as of Valuation Date
    (4) Unfunded Accrued Liability
    2005 - 14,910,434 3.11% (of line 3. Net Assets Available) 2006 - 50,426,727 10.22% (of line 3. Net Assets Available)
    2007 - $ 46,892,097 9.15% (of line 3. Net Assets Available)
    2008 - $126,873,858 25.64% (of line 3. Net Assets Available)

NOTE - According to this data, the AMO Pension Fund “unfunded accrued liability” increased significantly since 2005. Again, it raises the obvious question of what modifications to strategy (if any) was implemented by the pension plan investment managers, and what oversight was accomplished by the AMO Board of Trustees?

ADMINISTRATIVE EXPENSES from 2005 – 2008
Plan Year ending in 2007 1,536,345 Plan Year ending in 2008 2,166,968 (increase of 630,623 / 4.10%) Plan Year ending in 2009 2,907,427 (increase of $ 740,459 / 3.42%)

AMO FINANCIAL STATEMENTS REVIEW
Financial Statements, year ending 2008 and 2007

Assets and Liabilities
Change in ASSETS (investments only) from end 2007 to end 2008:
2007 594,582,676 2008 469,051,119
LOSS $ 125,531,557 / 21.11 % loss

NOTE - The value of AMO Pension Plan (investment) assets dropped by 21% in one year, while administrative expenses increased by almost 5% per year. It appears that the AMO membership paid more for increasingly worse performance. That is not a “business model” that will serve the customer well, or in this case, the AMO membership, as history has proven all too painfully.

CONCLUSIONS
It does not take a rocket scientist to see that the AMO Pension Plan performed extremely poorly over the few years noted. To say the losses were “inevitable” is unsubstantiated. Unfortunately, the typical financial advisor earns money for his firm regardless of whether the client gains or loses money. The typical Wall Street brokerage firm is full of “yes men”, who advise clients based on the herd mentality. The broker / advisor who dares to “step outside the box” and make recommendations that do not cater to the “party line” is unacceptable, and those who do so are typically “muffled and silenced”.

The bottom line here, is the fact that “competent” financial advisors and economists warned of the impending financial disaster that was coming, yet both institutional and private investors were “advised” to invest and hold their course in extremely dangerous and volatile financial instruments. Like cows being herded over a cliff, investors lost trillions of dollars. The AMO Pension Plan was devastated, and the financial security of many AMO member familes was severely compromised or destroyed. Meanwhile, AMO was paying investment advisors to act in the best interests of the Pension Plan, and the Board of Trustees were charged with monitoring and oversight. An unbiased review of AMO investments since at least 2005, SHOULD have resulted in the advisors AND the Trustees realizing there was trouble on the horizon and that SOMETHING should have been done to protect plan assets. Instead, right up until 23 April 2009, AMO assured the membership, claiming that all was well, and nothing was done until it was too late.

To say the losses were inevitable suggests that paying financial advisors who stood by as millions of dollars was lost from the AMO Pension Plan, is to suggest that NO advisors would have been preferable to those who allowed the plan to suffer such losses. Any idiot could have placed the AMO Pension Plan Assets in conservative, ‘minimum risk’ securities and the result would have been better than what occurred as a result of paying the advisors.

The question now, as AMO members look to the future, is who is at the helm? I suspect the same advisors who managed to sit back while the pension plan was decimated the first time, continue to advise the the AMO Trustees. In spite of the previous losses, AMO members are now asked to have faith in the same administration, using the same financial advisors, as they review their new pension estimate. Aside from the fact that AMO members are horrified by the low estimates they are receiving for the value of their hard earned pension funds, which may or may not be accurate 6 -7 years from now, the estimates come with absolutely no guarantee of the amount they can expect to receive. Based on previous performance, AMO members had better start buying lottery tickets; their chances of winning might be greater than the chance of ever receiving a decent pension from the AMO.

Meanwhile, a few select union officials have seen their annual salaries increase by 10% and higher, while the typical AMO member has seen his hopes for a decent pension from AMO evaporate in to thin air…

It is time to change now.