It is not dirty laundry just discussion. Everyone will always have a difference of opinion regarding which union is better but all provide better than average benefits and a defined pension program plus other retirement savings options as well as other benefits. The pay, benefits, training, retirement and job security equal or exceed any individual contract that I have seen. Some retirees get in excess of $100,000/yr. But to each their own.
I find it amazing that, when a company that made around $55,000,000,000 last year decides to play games with labor, the reaction from the unions is to fight each other and not aim together at the employer.
I find it even more amazing that a lot of the recent animosity is apparently a result of one union’s sour grapes that another union won free and fair secret ballot elections, as if the decision was the result of malicious skullduggery and not individual sailors voting, based on public information, for what they reasonably believed to be their best choice.
There’s some pettiness going on here that people need to step back and address within themselves before coming back with more fratricidal commentary.
(Also, hi, been lurking here for going on a decade, decided to finally register and hop into the conversations given that these current fights will probably impact me.)
I agree. This whole forum is about talking about what is going on in the industry. The forum is about expressing opinions and sharing facts and experiences. - even if those realities upset people
I ignored @AKBJR because I know he/ she is trying to bait me into a debate and reiterate everything I’ve said before.
On MEBA ships I’ve sailed with AMO, MMP and MEBA members. There are bad and good apples everywhere but a vast majority of them want all the unions to work together. Unfortunately a specific Union’s administration ( not members) doesn’t think MEBA has the right to represent Deck Officers and didn’t want to make an even deal. It is what it is- but luckily it works out for me as a MEBA mate and worked out for MEBA engineers because it’s created a great bond between AMO and MEBA.
From my view there’s one Union that seems to be fighting everyone. However, two of the Unions are working together (AMO and MEBA) and a lot of members of are excited for the future and expanded job opportunities. This APL fleet expansion is a great opportunity for the industry. It’s going to be hard logistically to expand the fleet in the coming years and companies understandably want to work with Unions that realistically can crew their ships and also not fight at every turn/ make it logistically harder. Both MEBA and AMO Unions together represent a significant majority of US mariners. That’s despite the vocal disaffection members of a smaller Union on this forum. The AMO - MEBA continued working relationship might lead to the 1 Union everyone wants !
Dude, MEBA was not cut off by MMP for representing ATC and OSG. Deck officers themselves onboard one of the vessels, upon hearing MEBA was doling out pledge cards, thought to themselves “if MEBA why not MMP too?” Said deck officers reached out to MMP. And thus a fair election was held. An overwhelming majority voted for MMP.
So why the hell is MEBA upset about this? Literally, the deck officers themselves chose MMP. Aren’t they supposed to be able to chose who they want to represent them?
Yes of course MEBA lost fair and square. I heard some OSG/ ATC regretting their choice. I wasn’t talking about the OSG organizing at all.
I was talking about the passthrough deal. MMP didn’t want to make a deal with MEBA that’s why MEBA is ended it. The fact that MMP didn’t want to work with MMP more or less lead to this awesome partnership with AMO.
AMO - MEBA partnership is more beneficial for MEBA than an MEBA - MMP partnership. Also the partnership is great for AMO.
Monday is going to be very interesting come meeting time, not that I have any info right now. OG Pass thru is what it is, done. If MMP doesn’t get into the unification game soon they really might get left behind. MEBA leadership isn’t going to reach out to MMP, there is no big benefit for them to do so. Josberger needs to realize what is really at stake here and step up for his membership and their future. He could certainly use the article XX as leverage to get into the game. I really hope for the benefit of everyone MMP has some kind of plan other than hoping they get the new APL tonnage. Its not like they could crew half that many.
Does this mean that no MMP and MEBA jobs are going to be passthrough to each other? If so how is MMP going to crew the SLNC ships? Is this why SLNC is bringing a new tanker in but under their AMO subsidiary?
I predicted this years ago No one ran against him so we were stuck. I think he’s made two big gambles that is going to cost the Union big time.
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Not agreeing to work out an equal pass through with MEBA was a gamble. Joseberger thought MEBA needed MMP mates and would eventually fold. Instead they went to AMO. This eventually led to a solid MEBA- AMO relationship at a time when the fleet is going to grow.
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The OSG vote was a nice win it might not stick. Legal battle is dragging out. MMP turned down an offer to co bid on the OSG ballot by offering OSG mates MMP membership with MEBA union pension. If there is a revote who’s to say they don’t make the same offer / Co-bid with AMO.
It’s not doom and gloom for MMP though. As the fleet grows as a whole the pressure will not be on MMP applicants but the MMP fleet might not grow. I think by the end of the year it will be at its lowest but probably won’t go lower.
Companies with a subsidiary doesn’t include MMP will expand with their non MMP subsidiary. (Pasha, Maersk, SLNC, )
Unless MEBA puts a stop to it, I think there will still be one off/case by case pass thru with MMP. How this impacts Liberty on the car ships we will see???Does AMO have enough sr deck officers to pass thru for Liberty and Express….and APL? Probably not. There just are not that many sr deck officers anywhere.
You working unlimited tonnage? Deep sea? Not a tanker? Not a lot of options if you’re looking for a US flag ship with those parameters. I find knowing what’s going on at the other two unions gets me an upper hand in contract negotiations when the time comes. I’m sure the MMP/MEBA guys feel similar. Call it airing dirty laundry but really it’s just sailors bitching about their employers. Happens everywhere.
Great motivation to upgrade though. And great leverage to get AMO/MEBA to press APL hard for a good contract that pays well for CM’s. If they go with the typical AMO permanent positions then they should work on paying junior mates to take their upgrade classes if they’re short.
At the moment there are a few jobs that were passed to MMP but it’s becoming more rare. Most jobs are being filled by MEBA or passed to AMO first.
I was recently asked by a MMP chief mate about switching to MEBA. People in the end are going to go where the jobs are. But I also personally know people in MEBA sailing below their licenses with Chief mates license waiting for those express ships to make the jump up. There might be shortages in areas and a lack of work in others all depends.
I’m not.
When I first went to sea, I shipped from a hall (Scandinavian Shipping Office in New Orleans) whose crews all belonged to one national union, whichever flag. I was pretty perplexed when I started shipping under the U.S. flag, and found a divided work force. It seemed really stupid, and still does.
MM&P did a better job communicating with the Mates. They sent weekly emails directly to their personal emails. Still no one knows where they obtained these emails… MEBA had an advantage because they could board the vessels and talk directly to the mates and MM&P could not board but none of the mates on my ship would meet with the MEBA reps. Engine was hoping the mates would go with MEBA because it would increase our bargaining position but that didn’t happen. No big deal. I have heard more than a few mates are regretting their choice because as of when I crewed off, MM&P has been mute as far as communication about what is going on. No one has heard anything. Maybe that changed in the past couple of months?
Also not sure if fair and square was accurate. OSG did not want MEBA to represent the mates. IMO they did what they could to sabotage MEBA.
MEBA was banned from the hotel at the previous Senior Officers conference. They were told they could not get rooms and could not reserve a conference room to meet with their members and invite the mates for a meet and greet. OSG not only invited AMO, they set aside two hours of the conference so they could meet with the mates. They had a sign on the monitor of the elevators to meet with AMO. Not sure it was mandatory but these times are during the conference.
Just saying, it may not have been entirely on the up and up…
How was MEBA banned from the hotel? Was it a MMP owned hotel?
Exactly. Your post sums up things quite well.
I also agree with the sentiment about good for MMP for swooping these billets and good for OSG mates for exercising their free will.
But along with that is both MMP and those mates have picked their path so I don’t want to hear shit more about it. When they become unsatisfied with their dying union and their shit pension, don’t come see us wanting to collaborate/negotiate/whatever else.
I’m happy we’ve pivoted away from aligning with MMP and towards AMO.
Didn’t AMO default on their pension around 15 years ago? Maybe that’s some of the hesitation about AMO from some MMP members.
No. I was told by a Senior MEBA rep the hotel denied them and they suspect it was at OSGs bidding. The conference rooms was definitely available and the hotel said they couldn’t accommodate.
OSG rents rooms for three hundred plus people every two years for three nights at whatever price they pay. I know to book a room during the conference it was 460.00 a night.
Yes this is conjecture but not out of the question
Seems OSG bribed the hotel for the night. That’s effed up but it shows money rules as usual.
Once again I’m curious why you think MMP is “dying”? Even if they don’t get the new APL ships, what makes you believe they are in such dire straits?
Call me crazy, but I am actually beginning to suspect some of you are actually shoreside higher-ups in either the unions or companies. What normal regular old employee/member of a union would be that passionate about the demise of another union? Doesn’t make sense unless you have some sort of high position in a union or company.