Sources include MMP work rules, MMP job requirements, MMP mates, & MEBA mates, etc.
Permanent second mates are very valuable. It’s nice to not to worry about that part of the job when you are CM. It’s nice when you can rely on them to know their job and to do the job effectively. Also for them to effectively communicate with the Captain. It falls on the CM for not pushing some 2m to move up but selfishly you want to keep a good 2m on your rotation.
Fortunately for many this isn’t a business that has high year tenure like the armed forces. If you love your job there, but spend too much time at a certain pay grade. You’re gone. They literally will force you to move to a desk or hit the street with no in between.
Senior officers with ego problems will hound 2nd’s to move up and subtly shame them for not even having a chief mate’s ticket like it really matters. Most career 2nd’s I’ve known were some of the realest dudes out there.
Perhaps, moreso on a ship with permanent crew. Unless the merchant marine institutes high year tenure for second mate to master, that’s just the way it is.
“High year tenure” do you mean like being able to sit for Master with more than 6 months of second time (and less than 6 months as chief mate)? They used to have that. It changed while I was at sea as second (holding chief mate) getting the last of the days I needed for Master. Found out when I went to the REC to apply and was told the rules just changed.
I think he is referring to the “perform to serve” system that the Navy implemented circa 2012. You would get kicked out if you didn’t rank up by certain mile markers. The lowest rank you could hold and still do a full 20 was E6. I remember some of the career E5s…most of them were either on the autism spectrum or they were very charismatic troublemakers. I even recall seeing a gold chevron 3rd class sleeve eagle for sale at the Nex!
It was simply referred to as “Up, or Out” when I was in the Navy. That was a long before 2012.
I don’t find anything to back your claims. The only course I’m not seeing at Calhoon is the Med-PIC (Ships Medicine). When did they drop that? The only thing blocking a pass-through mate is an MM&P member looking to ship. You should have been around when an MM&P applicant had to wait for a job to circulate. Anyway, I wish you well - I just think you’re exaggerating.
MEBA reimburses for mates to take classes at other schools. Reread my post from previous threads.
I’m not going to type out everything on this thread because it’s not what this thread is about. If you are still confused the topic has been explained extensively in other threads.
The point IS for AMO to fill 20 US flag vessels (40 Chief mates) they are not going require the AMO Chief Mates to “have sailed 90 days on on an MMP containership or have sailed with APL previously.” That’s just silly. So AMO Chief mates wouldn’t qualify if they had worked on AMO containserships lol. Those work requirements for APL you see in MMP halls right now are MMP implemented requirements NOT APL requirements.
Are the engine billets going AMO or MEBA?
You’re responding to me? Are you also MEBADeckie? You have two accounts? That’s good MEBA reimburses for outside courses. So, only one impediment exists at one company.
I wonder then if there was a renewed emphasis placed on it. I specifically remember it becoming a thing around 2012.
I think you are reading too much into it. At this point I’m confused because this MEBA - MMP stuff has been hammered out ad nauseam. Just thought I needed this need a little more clarity so I jumped in. Edited my post above. And yes read my old posts for the other threads
My interest in this thread stems from the seeming antipathy toward MM&P by some. Have things changed so much in the year since I retired?
Honestly I’m not too sure how representative this forum is of the actual opinions of mmp out there in the fleet.
Although I don’t sail in MMP I did visit a union hall recently and everyone I spoke to was very happy, encouraged me to make the jump, and said I’d be making the right choice. People were very excited to show me how the shipping process worked, and told me they were very happy they switched from what they had been doing to MMP offshore.
So, I am also confused by what I read on here because it is not in keeping with what I saw and felt at the hall.
It also doesn’t represent the attitudes of the MEBA mates I’ve met with extremely few exceptions. The worst offender being a mate (now port captain) for Liberty Maritime who drunkenly tried getting cadets to rally against MMP when they landed an MOU with SUNY. It was bizarre.
Luckily no one did or does take them seriously. I’ve worked with MEBA mates at Patriot and if it wasn’t for the MEBA magnets on their doors you’d never know the difference. We got along fine.
The same could be said of tankers.
I got out in 1994 and they had this policy instituted then.
Yeah, it must have just have received a renewed emphasis or something. In 2011/12 I had a BM2 (gold chevron) retire out of my division at 20. A year later had a 15/16 year BM2 get pushed out because he didn’t rank up. That 3rd class gold chevron in the Nex was a shocker though. Never actually saw anyone wearing that.
I know that I’m just simpleton working for the man, nearly $200k for 6 months a year or less but all this middle-man, union fighting seems too much for me. A lot more complicated than signing a contract individually to provide labor for a salary. AMO, MEBA, MMP or the go it alone folks, good luck to my fellow US mariners. But don’t air dirty laundry maybe?
