You forgot the pension which can be considerable
Health insurance is pretty nice. Free training is pretty nice. Have a recourse when a company is trying to fuck with you is pretty nice.
Unions aren’t perfect, neither are independent companies. If you’re happy where you are, great. I don’t understand why people feel the need to get on here and bash other unions or the private vs. union argument either. I like my setup. MMP/MEBA isn’t for me because I don’t live near a hall. Private isn’t for me because I like building my own schedule.
For me (I can’t speak for other impressions by current MMP sailing members of MMP retirement plan) it isn’t great, BUT at the end of 20 pension yrs( or hitting 20 qualifying years + age = rule of 70) combined with my IRAP (100% day 1 vested company contributions at CBA dependent multiplier on your daily wage and either payable vacation wage or vacation benefit wage) I’m relatively satisfied with what I’ve got. Sure I’d like more, but I’ve planned well enough in other areas that I should be just fine. I make a very fair market wage in my current billet and save plenty on my own.
There’s no point complaining about what all the former Capt’s got under original pension plan which had no cap on the pension base. It was bad unsustainable math that had to be corrected, so here we are. If nothing else, at least we now have a semblance of equity between Capt’s and CMs pension accruals. Previously, you could bust your ass all day long as MMP CM under old pension plan. Depending on the ship, especially before STCW scrutiny, you might even make close to total Capt’s overall wages, but you would never have come close to his/her annual pension accrual. That was wrong and it’s fixed now. In the long run, MMPs loss of all those tankers in the 80s was something the pension plan was not going to recover from, along with bad investments and not keeping a watchful eye over Tower Mgmt financial clowns. However, it didn’t kill us, and the current ‘problems’ aren’t going to kill us either. MEBA has had to make corrections to their pension plans when it was time, if not overdue. There was plenty of bitching then whether it was the 11.7% personal contributions off your own paycheck (finished now) or changing/eliminating lump sum buyouts. I will openly admit that I truly enjoyed all the MEBA rancor and vitriol spewed at Mike Jewel in the early 2010s when he made the tough choices that had to be made. IT SEEMED like almost everybody at MEBA on the ships wanted to lynch him….but it seems like he was right to me.
Granted, G BUSH Sr broke his promise (read my lips…) and didn’t get reelected. He listened to his bean counters….. and B CLINTON enjoyed 8 yrs of comparative federal financial bliss tks to somebody else’s wisely broken promise.
The pension plan multipliers have recently been increased a respectable amount for 20 and 20+ yrs and the pension cap has increased. I believe with 100% confidence MMP has the best health/dental/vision insurance of all the unions. That is worth a whole lot to me as well. Premiums out of my wages are cheap and the support network at MMP HQ is fantastic and always prompt to assist. The absolute max somebody would pay in MMP Offshore group right now for all 3 insurances is $6750 annual, less than $600/mo. Doesn’t matter how many dependents you have, and you don’t have to ship 6 mos a year to keep it. Depending on the CBA, you could probably work about 4.5 mos and still be covered AND have MITAGS access.
I’ve belonged to two maritime unions. They both sucked.
The maritime unions all suck. The wages are too low and rise too slowly. Either they are bad negotiators or paid off by the companies. I think it’s probably a combination of both. Plus, the race to the bottom.
A rising tide lifts all boats, but a falling tide leaves all boats stranded.
At times the maritime unions help to raise all wages, but at other times they hold back all wages.
The maritime unions have needed to strike for decades, but they’ve apparently been paid off not to do it.
During this time of “a shortage of mariners” and timed to match the Longshoremen strikes, that is the time to strike.
New maritime contracts should be negotiated to end at the same time as the longshoremen contracts.
The longshoremen’s unions (only two non competing unions on opposite coasts) are the model for how maritime unions should actually get mariners top pay.
Yes. And it looks like AMO and MEBA might be on that path eventually
Yeah but now it’s the time to be hanging on either. MMPs current problems are self inflicted. I doubt the MMP leadership will make the tough decision to make the change that’s necessary. It’s dangerous for the union but comfortable for the officials. It’s easy to let it fail Union fail but it’s tough to face the criticism and make it survive. Even if survival means merging.
If the school is a burden I believe the money would be spent selling the property and instead using the training funds to pay for training at other Union training facilities or private ones. These agreements would have to be in place before and yes some people will loose their jobs but you have to think of the health of the Union.
I will say reading this thread has made me way more appreciative of working for a private company. It’s not perfect and some stuff isn’t great but overall it is 10x simpler and better organized that whatever this is.
Have been considering the switch for a while and probably will stay put after all.
What private company gives you a $100,000/yr pension as MEBA advertises currently if you sail for 20 years? Granted it may take you 40 years but you’re going to be working somewhere. What about your health benefits with a union vs private company. What about the free training of your private company, got any? Who in your private company defends you against unfair labor practices? Unions have their faults but at the end of the day they fight for their members while trying to remain relevant in this time of anti worker sentiment.
Longshoremen unions are so strong because unlike ships you can’t reflag a port like a ship or use a cheap FOC. The port is not moving. US maritime unions are weak because the US and other countries allow shipping companies to use cheap foreign labor to undercut their own workers in the name of “cheaper goods.” Turns out it really doesn’t make cheaper goods but sure sounds better to keep repeating it
Had to do some research on MEBA’s pension. Sounds like a solid deal. But 40 years is a long time! Different people like different setups. Plenty of private companies actually do it pretty good despite what some might think/broadcast online.
Sailor51:
- So, what exactly is ‘the change’ that you feel is necessary? I really don’t think a real merger of any kind with MEBA is possible because of the way the pension plans are structured and (understandably) I don’t think MEBA voting ranks would ever go for it for the pension disparities alone. That’s purely my take and I’m sure the whole proposal would be very complicated.
- A proposal to sell MITAGS would, I’m sure, be very, very complicated. To be clear, MITAGS is a completely separate financial entity from MMP. The H&B / Trust Student program that grants access to/determines eligibility for/and counts the beans of employer contributions, etc., I’m sure would have to move mountains to communicate and coordinate changing training to a another location. I would imagine the cost of housing mates at some hotel in another city (Houston, Ft Lauderdale, etc.) would far out pace the current cost that they claim for MITAGS lodging for MMP attendees. The rooms are really not that great, but they were built decades ago and they haven’t spent (as far as I can tell) a whole lot of money to upgrade them. The cable package still sucks and there’s bottle openers and ash trays in the heads, but the rooms are good enough. MITAGS can’t be beat for ease of airport access, walking distance to class, convenient dining facility (even if it has gone downhill quality wise), and trips in/out of Baltimore/DC. In a shrinking US fleet, employer contributions simply haven’t been enough to keep it in the black. I would imagine some of this would also have to go through Board of Trustees, etc etc. It won’t be EASY to rectify MITAGS financial woes, but I truly believe (after talking in person to the MMP President) that he is committed to assisting and guiding MITAGS to make the right actions (painful if need be) and financial ‘deletions’ as necessary to prop the place up. MITAGS was doing ‘okay’ for a while, then COVID hit along with state of MD changing it’s status as hotel/convention center which upped the tax burden. Double whammy in a few short years.
Or the retirement is better…
I’m not knocking these opinions of doom and gloom and Q I’m not speaking directly to you on this but, things are far better than they have been in years for applicants. I know much less about MMP than the others but, no one is starving. There are times such as after the holidays and after summer they may need to sit in the hall but it’s pretty good right now and things seem good for the near future…
Every mate that is working at OSG the time the contract is signed gets an A Book. It was asked and answered multiple times in the weekly QnA they sent to every vessel and every mate. It’s 100% in writing, zero ambiguity and it’s binding.
I’m still amazed by this. The total number of B Books in the union (less than a dozen I believe, at present— and a rare book to hold historically) will now see growth. It will be the farthest some long time members get for awhile.
Imagine grinding at MMP for multiple years to get your A book and then someone who graduated in 2022 also has one just like you.
Or some kid that graduated a couple months ago in 2025!
If it was a sure thing that OSG would get a contract. If I just graduated I’d go get a job with OSG just to jump. But it’s anyone’s guess when or if they’ll actually get a contract.
And that is a question to ask the OAC, what’s their plan going fwd? Passthru dead, 6-7 LMSRs going ROS, MSC contract awards soon. OAC may not formulate a game plan for GEB votes going fwd until after AFL CIO decision re AMO/SIU.
I was opposed to the number of people that were getting A books for many years simply because govt contracts don’t last forever. Always possible every 5 years that somebody else (another union) gets the award. After PCS lost the Bob Hope class and all their other LMSRs in 2005, the points total to get an A book jumped from roughly 2000 to 3000… GEB vote confirmations for book status dropped off a cliff for many years. We had many rich years of the LMSRs all being active on FOS missions with minimal ROS time obviously employing a whole lot of LDOs, then poof, they were gone.
Josberger and Co. threw a big middle finger up in the faces of 90% of the membership and applicants. Sure, they’ll jawbone a lot at meetings to justify it, but leadership seems verrrrrrrry impulse-driven, which is problematic.
Where are you getting this 40 years from?
You need 20 years pension credit
240 days a year of covered employment gets you a full pension year. Less and you’ll start getting tenths of a year.
Vacation counts as covered employment.
You can also covert your overtime to vacation.
It’s very possible to work one 90 day hitch a year, convert all the overtime to vacation and earn a pension year.
You don’t need 40 years with a union, 20 should do it, but you may without a pension, depends on how much income you need when you decide to quit working in order to maintain the lifestyle you want.
Most people begin working in their early 20’s and continue into their 60’s. Medical coverage is a big reason people in the US continue working into their 60’s.