[QUOTE=cali deckie;134396]The indentured servitude has expanded into the academies as AMO desperately searches for young blood. They are offering us all 150 a month for our junior year and 200 a month of our senior year along with training at the star center each summer. Of course there are strings attached and most of us have figured that by not taking the money we will make more money the first year out. They have lowered the standards and are willing to interview people for it that have not applied. But wait thereās more! They are even open to people who wont even take the time to schedule an interview. They even took away the application deadline just to show how much of a failure this was.[/QUOTE]
MY GOD! Can the US professional mariner community finally be waking up to the SCAM that the AMO has perpetuated for 30 years running?
So they expect people to narrow their career options and commit to AMO prior to graduation, for the āgenerousā payments of $150 a month? The GI Bill gives me 10 times that and itās not enough to live on. Sorry, Iāll pass on that one.
[QUOTE=MandolinGuy;134399]So they expect people to narrow their career options and commit to AMO prior to graduation, for the āgenerousā payments of $150 a month? The GI Bill gives me 10 times that and itās not enough to live on. Sorry, Iāll pass on that one.[/QUOTE]
It MIGHT be worth it if they were covering tuition and fees at least, but signing away 6 years for $4200, give or take compared to potential earningsā¦not enough to entice people to sign up. Itās new. It may get better.
[QUOTE=Yo_Soy_Marinero;134407]It MIGHT be worth it if they were covering tuition and fees at least, but signing away 6 years for $4200, give or take compared to potential earningsā¦not enough to entice people to sign up. Itās new. It may get better.[/QUOTE]
Responsible academy administrators would not even allow the AMO on campus. Much less allow the AMO to peddle that poison potion on campus.
You know, Iāve worked some shit jobs for some shit outfits and I bite my tongue rather than bad mouth them too much. One never knows when one will be out of work and despairate for a job, but AMO is a scam. Any outfit paying 3/M $80 per day, 2/M $90 and 1/M $100 (in 2000, not exactly ancient history) and then calling the member on their offtime for political fund contributionsā¦Need I say more?
[QUOTE=seadog6608;134525]You know, Iāve worked some shit jobs for some shit outfits and I bite my tongue rather than bad mouth them too much. One never knows when one will be out of work and despairate for a job, but AMO is a scam. [B]Any outfit paying 3/M $80 per day, 2/M $90 and 1/M $100 (in 2000, not exactly ancient history)[/B] and then calling the member on their offtime for political fund contributionsā¦Need I say more?[/QUOTE]
(o_o) That is what I made at Toys R Us back in high school!
I was a AMO applicant in early '90s - TAGOS ship as 3M working for US Marine mgmt. Made less than $100/day after taxes and paying a head hunter. Never sailed with AMO again after 2 tours.
i was with amo for a bit and while i dont regret my time, i certainly would not have spent my time there had i been on one of their poor contracts. i dont know how the guys on the TAGS and TAGOS ships survive with the pittance they receive. Now after all of the LMSRās fo over to MEBA and MMP they are going to be pretty hard pressed to keep guys around. they are bleeding people and jobs. I do appreciate the time i spent at STAR though.
Another note, they had some ridiculous thing where you had to stay with them for 5 years or pay 10 grand if you didnt for taking their DP basic class. I cant believe people fell in that trap.
Update on AMO college indentured servitude program: They were having a presentation followed by interviews today and literally no one showed up for it.
Lots of frustrationā¦
Short memoriesā¦
Graduate in 1982,83 or 84 from one of the Maritime Academies? Remember how tough shipping was? We had more guys join the Navy than Merchant Marine (not by choice but because they were starving). More guys became stock brokers than marinersā¦ Some became eighteen wheel truck drivers with third mate licenses framed in their cabs.
I sailed Liberian flag for $1,200 per monthā¦ 6 hours on, 6 hours off for 10 months straight. No vacation or retirement pay or even basic medical. And I wasnāt alone.
I had a great time.
All this complaining about various union deals has to be put in perspectiveā¦ Times are good these days so we bitch. But times were good in 1980 tooā¦ Then the bottom dropped outā¦ And when it happens again we would be all lovey dovey about courting one of those AMO jobs right out of school.
So keep complaining about the desperate American unions trying to pay some of your college costs and guaranteeing you a job with benefits when you graduateā¦ The louder the bitching, the healthier the job market must beā¦ And thatās good for all of us.
(BTWā¦ On the Liberian ship we ran out of food twiceā¦ Had to catch fish at anchorā¦ All we had was rice, bread and water).
[QUOTE=Starboard Ten;134738]Lots of frustrationā¦
Short memoriesā¦
Graduate in 1982,83 or 84 from one of the Maritime Academies? Remember how tough shipping was? We had more guys join the Navy than Merchant Marine (not by choice but because they were starving). More guys became stock brokers than marinersā¦ Some became eighteen wheel truck drivers with third mate licenses framed in their cabs.
I sailed Liberian flag for $1,200 per monthā¦ 6 hours on, 6 hours off for 10 months straight. No vacation or retirement pay or even basic medical. And I wasnāt alone.
I had a great time.
All this complaining about various union deals has to be put in perspectiveā¦ Times are good these days so we bitch. But times were good in 1980 tooā¦ Then the bottom dropped outā¦ And when it happens again we would be all lovey dovey about courting one of those AMO jobs right out of school.
So keep complaining about the desperate American unions trying to pay some of your college costs and guaranteeing you a job with benefits when you graduateā¦ The louder the bitching, the healthier the job market must beā¦ And thatās good for all of us.
(BTWā¦ On the Liberian ship we ran out of food twiceā¦ Had to catch fish at anchorā¦ All we had was rice, bread and water).[/QUOTE]
I generally agree with most of your posts but I donāt agree with this one.
In the past what made those low-paying jobs desirable was that we knew there were high paying jobs out there and we wanted one. You canāt tell me you intended to subsist on bread and water till you retired (or died) or that you would have gone to school for a maritime career knowing that was all that was out there .
What were are seeing today is different. Today the largest maritime union has a policy of driving down wages.
Labor was gutted in the 80ās. What we are seeing now is itās long painful death.
My observations sound like they were not relevant to the focus of the thread. I do not know anywhere near as much as you guys doā¦ who are still very active with the job and union experiences.
The AMO shipās mates I know on the Jean Anne never complain about money and there is no turnoverā¦ But that is too all a sample to make a conclusion.
Then at the same time I am hearing on this gcaptain site how some guys are making great pay in the industry in generalā¦
My point was that yes I was one of those kids full of wonder for the job initially and would have worked for almost nothing just to get experience.
Some guys hate on MSC but still used them for experience. Using AMO might be similar.
You are absolutely right that the initial shine wears off and we all want to make money.
Things have changed a lot. Almost all my classmates were barely 22 when they took over their first bridge watch. Now it sounds like they are older and have more pressure to produce upon them immediately.
I apologize if I came across as flippant. This downward trajectory of salary as orchestrated by the AMO is seriously consequential to our colleagues.
[QUOTE=Starboard Ten;134792]My observations sound like they were not relevant to the focus of the thread. I do not know anywhere near as much as you guys doā¦ who are still very active with the job and union experiences.
The AMO shipās mates I know on the Jean Anne never complain about money and there is no turnoverā¦ But that is too all a sample to make a conclusion.
Then at the same time I am hearing on this gcaptain site how some guys are making great pay in the industry in generalā¦
My point was that yes I was one of those kids full of wonder for the job initially and would have worked for almost nothing just to get experience.
Some guys hate on MSC but still used them for experience. Using AMO might be similar.
You are absolutely right that the initial shine wears off and we all want to make money.
Things have changed a lot. Almost all my classmates were barely 22 when they took over their first bridge watch. Now it sounds like they are older and have more pressure to produce upon them immediately.
I apologize if I came across as flippant. This downward trajectory of salary as orchestrated by the AMO is seriously consequential to our colleagues.[/QUOTE]
AMO, sometimes the other unions, and a few companies on here get a bad rap from time to timeā¦guys like myself who have yet to graduate from the academies can only take the advice and choose to either take it to heart or block it out and learn for ourselves; however, regardless of how āshittyā (and thatās a relative term) a gig or company might be, Iām thankful that there are these opportunitiesā¦lots of other lines of work where people with good degrees, sometimes graduate degrees, canāt find work at all. Another observation is that so many in this field are able to land jobs related to their education. Really canāt be said for so many other recent college grads. Itās a few years away, but Iām pretty sure Iāll take whatever job I get and be thankful that I got itā¦at least until I have a butt load of experience.
Thanks for all of the replies to my thread guys, really appreciate it. Cheers~
[QUOTE=MandolinGuy;134902]AMO, sometimes the other unions, and a few companies on here get a bad rap from time to timeā¦guys like myself who have yet to graduate from the academies can only take the advice and choose to either take it to heart or block it out and learn for ourselves; however, regardless of how āshittyā (and thatās a relative term) a gig or company might be, Iām thankful that there are these opportunitiesā¦lots of other lines of work where people with good degrees, sometimes graduate degrees, canāt find work at all. Another observation is that so many in this field are able to land jobs related to their education. Really canāt be said for so many other recent college grads. Itās a few years away, but Iām pretty sure Iāll take whatever job I get and be thankful that I got itā¦at least until I have a butt load of experience.
Thanks for all of the replies to my thread guys, really appreciate it. Cheers~[/QUOTE]
that will change the day you graduate.
Haha, I guess weāll see.
I agree the Unions get a bad rap on here. My experience with AMO was indifferent. Coming out of Cal Maritime in 2008, I was ready to take any job that would hire me. I sent out hundreds of applications and resumes. US Shipping was the first to respond with a job. I knew it was a union job and with AMO. While not a top tier tanker company and I was relegated to the old ITBās going overseas hauling grain, I gained invaluable experience and met some really great people a long the way. I made a decent wage especially for coming right out of school I though. From there, I did the only job out of the āhallā up in Washington on the USNS Brittin. Again met some great people and learned so much. I ended up with Crowley Petroleum Services for the next 3 years of my 5 years in AMO. Great equipment, great people, and the money was pretty damn good on the steam ships and later 750 ATBās. Throughout the whole time perhaps I was blinded, but the union was merely a formality to be employed. The medical benefits were good when I had to use them.
After a brief stint ashore working at a power plant, I came back to sea working offshore on a IMR vessel. The money is better and the benefits better as well. Itās really a shame to see the unions racing to the bottom when we are all out here to make a good living for ourselves and families. While the unions have their place, it would be nice to see some camaraderie in doing what is best for the sailors regardless of affiliation.
[QUOTE=highseasmechanic;134949]I agree the Unions get a bad rap on here. My experience with AMO was indifferent. Coming out of Cal Maritime in 2008, I was ready to take any job that would hire me. I sent out hundreds of applications and resumes. US Shipping was the first to respond with a job. I knew it was a union job and with AMO. While not a top tier tanker company and I was relegated to the old ITBās going overseas hauling grain, I gained invaluable experience and met some really great people a long the way. I made a decent wage especially for coming right out of school I though. From there, I did the only job out of the āhallā up in Washington on the USNS Brittin. Again met some great people and learned so much. I ended up with Crowley Petroleum Services for the next 3 years of my 5 years in AMO. Great equipment, great people, and the money was pretty damn good on the steam ships and later 750 ATBās. Throughout the whole time perhaps I was blinded, but the union was merely a formality to be employed. The medical benefits were good when I had to use them.
After a brief stint ashore working at a power plant, I came back to sea working offshore on a IMR vessel. The money is better and the benefits better as well. Itās really a shame to see the unions racing to the bottom when we are all out here to make a good living for ourselves and families. While the unions have their place, it would be nice to see some camaraderie in doing what is best for the sailors regardless of affiliation.[/QUOTE]
The AMO is the only one racing to the bottom, but they are simply Saccoās trusty steed.
Sounds like AMO has a huge range of contracts from those $80 a day mate jobs referenced by a prior poster and some decent wages like the ship I was on today: Evergreen State where they told me they work 75 days on, 75 days off, thirds make about 100k/year, seconds $140k, chief mate maybe 180kā¦ (I didnāt get the Captainās payā¦)
Anyone know how much more MMP pays than that? 20%?
Either way itās clearly more than Filipinos get paid on cruise ships or foreign flagged merchant shipsā¦ At least on Evergreen State or Jean Anne (only two AMO ships I saw the past two weeks).
[QUOTE=Starboard Ten;135038]Sounds like AMO has a huge range of contracts from those $80 a day mate jobs referenced by a prior poster and some decent wages like the ship I was on today: Evergreen State where they told me they work 75 days on, 75 days off, thirds make about 100k/year, seconds $140k, chief mate maybe 180kā¦ (I didnāt get the Captainās payā¦)
Anyone know how much more MMP pays than that? 20%?
Either way itās clearly more than Filipinos get paid on cruise ships or foreign flagged merchant shipsā¦ At least on Evergreen State or Jean Anne (only two AMO ships I saw the past two weeks).[/QUOTE]
although I believe you were told that, those numbers are very suspicious. Especially if evergreen state is WA ferry.
top pay in MMP is Matson and MLL. C/M MIGHT be making 180k for 6mos work at Matson. Not as much for same at MLL.
Evergreen State is a product tanker. Managed and crewed by Crowley.