AMO and it's support of the cruise industry?

[QUOTE=PaddyWest2012;133941]You guys can talk about AMO all you want, I don’t trust any damn one of them. They can all go get stuffed as far as I’m concerned.[/QUOTE]

But you ARE willing for them to protect the Jones Act for you? Oh I get it. It is like saying, Why buy the cow when the milk’s free?

THAT said, AMO and SIU efforts to undercut MEBA over the years have been staggering, are and were utterly despicable. In fact, is AMO actually a union? It seems more like an organized crime.

At least the MEMBERS in MEBA revolted in the 90’s when their pension fund was being used as bait. The story is pretty complicated, but MEBA members of a certain age know the real story, as we manned the Halls around the clock to protect our Union and get control, which ultimately we did.

Take your generalized anti union Fox News spin on life and stick it. Just remember, Weekends, brought to you by Unions. Training & Apprenticeships, brought to you by Unions. Health benefits, think Union.

All Unions are not right all the time, nor are they wrong all the time. Just get your facts straight before spouting off about how they all suck. A LOT of people here went to Calhoun, worked their asses off and physically wear the scars, and we have had good solid middle class lives with benefits AND a pension exactly because of Unions,

And that is my rant for today !

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I was out there as a cadet shortly after that. The way they explained it basically they anchored the ships, the Company rep and the MEBA rep came out and said swap over or pack up and take the launch in. Those close to retirement had a tough decision to make because if they wanted to vest in the MEBA pension the deal meant staying on for something like eight more years. A lot of guys were loyal to the company and lived in the region so they stuck around. Some didn’t and we’re understandably bitter and there were a lot of missing tech manuals when I got there.

I’m surprised they didn’t get a visit from Larry The Random Valve Cylcler.

[QUOTE=+A465B;134002]But you ARE willing for them to protect the Jones Act for you? Oh I get it. It is like saying, Why buy the cow when the milk’s free?

THAT said, AMO and SIU efforts to undercut MEBA over the years have been staggering, are and were utterly despicable. In fact, is AMO actually a union? It seems more like an organized crime.

At least the MEMBERS in MEBA revolted in the 90’s when their pension fund was being used as bait. The story is pretty complicated, but MEBA members of a certain age know the real story, as we manned the Halls around the clock to protect our Union and get control, which ultimately we did.

Take your generalized anti union Fox News spin on life and stick it. Just remember, Weekends, brought to you by Unions. Training & Apprenticeships, brought to you by Unions. Health benefits, think Union.

All Unions are not right all the time, nor are they wrong all the time. Just get your facts straight before spouting off about how they all suck. A LOT of people here went to Calhoun, worked their asses off and physically wear the scars, and we have had good solid middle class lives with benefits AND a pension exactly because of Unions,

And that is my rant for today ![/QUOTE]

Yeah!!! Good thing MEBA never did anything to undermine another union…

The near decimation of and most certainly irreparable damage done to MMP in 80s… Thank MEBA at least 50%.

MMP getting no consideration for jobs on MV Carat… Thank MEBA 100%.

MMP getting locked out of Express Ship contract AGAIN (just to be very clear, there is no contractual provision with that company providing for MMP existence there)… Thank MEBA 100%, again on this one.

when I asked a certain someone at the MMP last year why we are combining halls with MEBA, when the past events clearly show they can’t be trusted to work together on contracts (that being the single most important issue for most shipping unions) his reply was:

"AT LEAST WE WILL BE THERE IN PERSON WHEN THEY STAB US IN THE BACK."
Sorry if that is a little ambiguous.

I am neither super pro union nor super pro MMP, but I would never come on here spreading fairy dust on here about it.

Jesse Calhoun was a hell of a businessman and hard worker, but don’t forget ruthless cutthroat to boot.

When things really started to unravel for MEBA in late 2011 and Jewell was doing what he thought best to help MEBA, I really thought we would get closer to joining as we were both in for a big fight to keep good wages and retain contracts long term. We did ultimately get that but both of us took wage and pension cuts.

Having dealt with all that I felt very positive about getting that Express Ship contract in writing. I do not work there, but the principle was very important, as this has been going on since almost 1995.

But NO, MEBA showed its true colors and locked MMP out. I was a fool for believing it could happen and more of a fool for believing Lincoln’s assurances that MEBA was going to work very hard towards MMP contract on those ships, even if that HORSESHIT pass through agreement, which MEBA has lorded over MMP for nearly 20 yrs, is retained.

MOLA… More like MMP is nothing to MEBA but a mole on its taint.

MEBA is “beneficial” is only to itself.

[QUOTE=Johnny Canal;134119]Yeah!!! Good thing MEBA never did anything to undermine another union…

The near decimation of and most certainly irreparable damage done to MMP in 80s… Thank MEBA at least 50%.

MMP getting no consideration for jobs on MV Carat… Thank MEBA 100%.

MMP getting locked out of Express Ship contract AGAIN (just to be very clear, there is no contractual provision with that company providing for MMP existence there)… Thank MEBA 100%, again on this one.

when I asked a certain someone at the MMP last year why we are combining halls with MEBA, when the past events clearly show they can’t be trusted to work together on contracts (that being the single most important issue for most shipping unions) his reply was:

"AT LEAST WE WILL BE THERE IN PERSON WHEN THEY STAB US IN THE BACK."
Sorry if that is a little ambiguous.

I am neither super pro union nor super pro MMP, but I would never come on here spreading fairy dust on here about it.

Jesse Calhoun was a hell of a businessman and hard worker, but don’t forget ruthless cutthroat to boot.

When things really started to unravel for MEBA in late 2011 and Jewell was doing what he thought best to help MEBA, I really thought we would get closer to joining as we were both in for a big fight to keep good wages and retain contracts long term. We did ultimately get that but both of us took wage and pension cuts.

Having dealt with all that I felt very positive about getting that Express Ship contract in writing. I do not work there, but the principle was very important, as this has been going on since almost 1995.

But NO, MEBA showed its true colors and locked MMP out. I was a fool for believing it could happen and more of a fool for believing Lincoln’s assurances that MEBA was going to work very hard towards MMP contract on those ships, even if that HORSESHIT pass through agreement, which MEBA has lorded over MMP for nearly 20 yrs, is retained.

MOLA… More like MMP is nothing to MEBA but a mole on its taint.

MEBA is “beneficial” is only to itself.[/QUOTE]

You seem to be laying a lot of blame for MM&P’s problems on the MEBA. Perhaps Jesse Calhoun was more situationally aware back then. Calhoun counseled PATCO (the air traffic controllers) a MEBA affiliate at the time not to strike and look what happened to them. The oil majors (Gulf & Texaco off the top of my head) were downsizing or eliminating their US flag fleet back then so there were a lot of unemployed non-union tanker mates [B]AND[/B] engineers floating around. Do you remember who was running the MM&P back in 80’s? How many cases did Bob Lowen and the MM&P win in the courts or NLRB with regards to their strike with the tankers companies? Zero as I recall.

If a MM&P entity had gotten the contract to run the M/V Carat do you think MEBA engineers would be working there considering there were a bunch of MM&P engineers on the beach after AHL went belly up?

If the financial positions of the MM&P and MEBA were switched do you [I]really[/I] think the members of the MM&P would want to merge with the MEBA. To bring both engineers[B][I] and their mates[/I][/B] under their banner? Me thinks not.

[QUOTE=Chief Seadog;134174]You seem to be laying a lot of blame for MM&P’s problems on the MEBA. Perhaps Jesse Calhoun was more situationally aware back then. Calhoun counseled PATCO (the air traffic controllers) a MEBA affiliate at the time not to strike and look what happened to them. The oil majors (Gulf & Texaco off the top of my head) were downsizing or eliminating their US flag fleet back then so there were a lot of unemployed non-union tanker mates [B]AND[/B] engineers floating around. Do you remember who was running the MM&P back in 80’s? How many cases did Bob Lowen and the MM&P win in the courts or NLRB with regards to their strike the tankers companies? Zero as I recall.

If a MM&P entity had gotten the contract to run the M/V Carat do you think MEBA engineers would be working there considering there were a bunch of MM&P engineers on the beach after AHL went belly up?

If the financial positions of the MM&P and MEBA were switched do you [I]really[/I] think the members of the MM&P would want to merge with the MEBA. To bring both engineers[B][I] and their mates[/I][/B] under their banner? Me thinks not.[/QUOTE]

Why the fuck MEBA and MMP were never able to come to a truce way back when MEBA-D2 was starting to eat their lunch is beyond me! There was a time in the early 80’s when D2 could have had its knees broken by a unified MMP/MEBA but the animosity between the two allowed McKay/Sacco to take hold and we live with the results today. Wages stagnant, pensions fucked…a complete utter mess in maritime labor!

Egos at the top with the players at the time. There are still a few around who might recall a dispute between the MM&P - MEBA laid up a waterman ship for a year back in the 70’s. If memory serves it was between a fool of a Captain and an idiot Chief. They both should have been fired but both unions started a pissing match that laid up a ship. Don’t think that would happen today but it was a different time back then. With the goings on between such prima dona union heads why wouldn’t companies begin to look at alternatives and thus MEBA-D2 (AMO) began to make inroads…

[QUOTE=Chief Seadog;134174]You seem to be laying a lot of blame for MM&P’s problems on the MEBA. Perhaps Jesse Calhoun was more situationally aware back then. Calhoun counseled PATCO (the air traffic controllers) a MEBA affiliate at the time not to strike and look what happened to them. The oil majors (Gulf & Texaco off the top of my head) were downsizing or eliminating their US flag fleet back then so there were a lot of unemployed non-union tanker mates [B]AND[/B] engineers floating around. Do you remember who was running the MM&P back in 80’s? How many cases did Bob Lowen and the MM&P win in the courts or NLRB with regards to their strike with the tankers companies? Zero as I recall.

If a MM&P entity had gotten the contract to run the M/V Carat do you think MEBA engineers would be working there considering there were a bunch of MM&P engineers on the beach after AHL went belly up?

If the financial positions of the MM&P and MEBA were switched do you [I]really[/I] think the members of the MM&P would want to merge with the MEBA. To bring both engineers[B][I] and their mates[/I][/B] under their banner? Me thinks not.[/QUOTE]

Yes, Lowen. Arrogant bastard by all accounts. Zero for lots, yes. But that’s why I said 50%.

MV Carat is Crowley/MTC, so MEBA had plenty of opportunity to share jobs. AHL had more than a few engineers retired from other places ( I don’t think they were starving) , others moved on as necessary. Carat was well after dissolution of AHL. I’m sure no one was sitting around waiting for a new MMP e/r slot. YES, I absolutely believe we would have partnered.

When MEBA tried for all officer slots on CV2600, did MMP counter and submit bid in kind? As far as I can tell, NO.

The only reason anyone considers let alone desires a merger is to fight off the AMO. If the complication of pension plan convergence/creation wasn’t so difficult, it might have more traction. Having said that, No excuse for Crowley lockout.

BTW, Jesse was quite aware that he wanted mate jobs at MOC, Keystone, etc. he didn’t get all of them at the time. Subsequently, MEBA has no other officer backing at OSG and ATC. And now you have some super squirrelly contract at OSG. How long before ATC follows suit?

[QUOTE=Johnny Canal;134178]MV Carat is Crowley/MTC, so MEBA had plenty of opportunity to share jobs. [/QUOTE]

To be honest I am not really familiar with the MV Carat but MTC is an MEBA contracted company correct? If that is the case wouldn’t the MEBA offer those jobs to MEBA mates first before there was any sort of pass through?

[QUOTE=Chief Seadog;134202]To be honest I am not really familiar with the MV Carat but MTC is an MEBA contracted company correct? If that is the case wouldn’t the MEBA offer those jobs to MEBA mates first before there was any sort of pass through?[/QUOTE]

That is not the way passthroughs work. It is a one way street that benefits MEBA.
When Lykes went bankrupt, MMP on those Lykes ships acquired by MTL/MTC became will and pleasure jobs as determined by MEBA . MEBA didn’t help MMP then, or any subsequent contact with that group of ships.

Meanwhile, MMP gets a list of 10-20 MEBA mate passthroughs shoved up its ass for the price of keeping jobs they had for decades prior. After all that happened in the 80s, that behavior defies logic.

MEBA passthroughs can beat out any applicant or D book for the 4 MMP express ships (and vessels prior) all day long. I have absolutely no ability to do the same at MEBA.

what a great working relationship!!!

[QUOTE=Johnny Canal;134223]That is not the way passthroughs work. It is a one way street that benefits MEBA.
When Lykes went bankrupt, MMP on those Lykes ships acquired by MTL/MTC became will and pleasure jobs as determined by MEBA . MEBA didn’t help MMP then, or any subsequent contact with that group of ships.

Meanwhile, MMP gets a list of 10-20 MEBA mate passthroughs shoved up its ass for the price of keeping jobs they had for decades prior. After all that happened in the 80s, that behavior defies logic.

MEBA passthroughs can beat out any applicant or D book for the 4 MMP express ships (and vessels prior) all day long. I have absolutely no ability to do the same at MEBA.

what a great working relationship!!![/QUOTE]

The uninformed of union matters [sadly the majority of this forum] are probably totally confused at this point.

It’s a lot like watching my old Greek Chief when he got upset. You knew what it was all about, but had no idea what he was actually saying.

[QUOTE=tengineer1;134224]The uninformed of union matters [sadly the majority of this forum] are probably totally confused at this point.[/QUOTE]

and yet a seasoned poster on this very forum scoffed at the statement by another individual made not long ago that this is primarily a “brown water” forum. That is not to be misconstrued for pro union rallying.

It is true. With very few ships having internet, certainly rarely wifi, and very little port time, there are, most likely, much, much fewer “blue water” mariners posting on here by comparison. Without bridge wifi and smartphones in port sitting around waiting for client orders or the next shuffling evolution, there would be way less traffic on GC. I never even joined until I started down here.

there are probably more kids currently at academies posting on here than blue water guys.

[QUOTE=Johnny Canal;134226]
It is true. With very few ships having internet, certainly rarely wifi, and very little port time, there are, most likely, much, much fewer “blue water” mariners posting on here by comparison. Without bridge wifi and smartphones in port sitting around waiting for client orders or the next shuffling evolution, there would be way less traffic on GC. I never even joined until I started down here.

there are probably more kids currently at academies posting on here than blue water guys.[/QUOTE]

The ship I’m on now had to choose between satellite internet or satellite TV, for some reason they went with TV. We’re in port often enough that it’s not a big deal. In a way it’s nice to not be connected all the time. I get a lot more sleep when there’s no internet around.

Johnny,

Sorry it didn’t work out for you and it seems MMP. It was pretty obvious that the end of the cold war (and the ensuing military draw down in Europe ), the end of ODS & CDS and a shift to MSP meant big trouble for US flag container shipping. The tanker situation just made matters worse.

I drifted away from MEBA after the '94 contracts …but fought the good fight while there. Over time I just lost interest, except remembering the venal efforts of AMO in lowering wages and benefits for all US mariners, which they succeeded in doing.

[QUOTE=+A465B;134298]Johnny,

Sorry it didn’t work out for you and it seems MMP. It was pretty obvious that the end of the cold war (and the ensuing military draw down in Europe ), the end of ODS & CDS and a shift to MSP meant big trouble for US flag container shipping. The tanker situation just made matters worse.

I drifted away from MEBA after the '94 contracts …but fought the good fight while there. Over time I just lost interest, except remembering the venal efforts of AMO in lowering wages and benefits for all US mariners, which they succeeded in doing.[/QUOTE]

Worked out just fine for me.

Just don’t want anybody on here pretending that MEBA is a bunch of unionized saints.

[QUOTE=Johnny Canal;134311]Worked out just fine for me.

Just don’t want anybody on here pretending that MEBA is a bunch of unionized saints.[/QUOTE]

Not a bunch of saints for sure. We can, have and do fight for our members, sometimes better than others.The management may suck from time to time but at the end of the day AMO, SIU, MMP et el. are all our brothers, at least in the members hearts and minds.

[QUOTE=Johnny Canal;134311]Worked out just fine for me.

Just don’t want anybody on here pretending that MEBA is a bunch of unionized saints.[/QUOTE]

Can’t recall pretending, writing or implying that, but I suppose beauty is in the eye of the beholder …

Thanks for all if the replies to the thread guys, lots good insight, even if not all if it pertained to the original topic! Seems like the union vs nonunion, and AMO vs MEBA vs MM&P arguments will continue until the end of time. Great for guys like me who are planning in entering the industry after kiddie navy school is over.

The indentured servitude has expanded into the academies as AMO desperately searches for young blood. They are offering us all 150 a month for our junior year and 200 a month of our senior year along with training at the star center each summer. Of course there are strings attached and most of us have figured that by not taking the money we will make more money the first year out. They have lowered the standards and are willing to interview people for it that have not applied. But wait there’s more! They are even open to people who wont even take the time to schedule an interview. They even took away the application deadline just to show how much of a failure this was.