[QUOTE=tugsailor;165723]Good questions. How many officers and how many mates?
As an unlimited tonnage ship AIVIQ should have: a 4 on, 8 off watch system with, one unlimited Master, one Chief Mate, one 2nd Mate, and two 3rd Mates.
If they need anchor winch operators, the should hire some extra guys to do that.
What happened to the oil company desire, to always have at least two officers on watch?[/QUOTE]
Its allegedly classed as an OSV, they can get away with 1 master, 2 mates if the voyage is less than 600 miles, or at least that’s how the marine safety manual makes it look if over 6,000 GT.
[QUOTE=tugsailor;165726]A “paper captain” is a guy who has the proper license so that he can legally be the “master”, but who lacks the skills and know how to actually do the vessel’s work. Somebody else, who lacks the proper license and cannot legally be the master, but has the right know how and skills conducts the actual work of the vessel.
An “anchor captain” is a guy that actually has the knowledge and ability to do a good job of running anchors with an AHTS vessel. As a practical matter he will be in charge of the vessel while running the rigs anchors.
In theory, there is something like the master / pilot relationship between the paper captain and anchor captain. Technically, the anchor captain is an advisor to the paper captain, but as a practical matter the anchor captain is in charge while running anchors.[/QUOTE]
So basically, I could be a paper husband and be legally married to my wife and live with her. But, the neighbor guy is the one actually having sex with my wife on a daily basis, even though I’m living there and paying the bills. Then we have the baby daddy who takes care of the kid part time but isn’t having sex with her, or actually married to her, or paying for anything. Sounds like a logical process and should work out amazingly.
Of course, if you go too far South all those people would be related in some way, shape, or fashion. haha
[QUOTE=Kraken;165727]It sounds like a recipe for disaster.[/QUOTE]
Generally speaking, I do not approve of the “paper captain” thing, but it exists. And in some circumstances it improves safety.
I wish that AIVIQ had had a paper captain in 2012, and that Shell had hired a “towing captain” with local knowledge that knew what he was doing. If so KULLUK would not have gone on the rocks.
I once found myself the paper captain, as Jeaux sent one of his goons to the boat to be my mate. After a few days of him pretending to run the show without a clue or authority to do so, I put myself on the log/payroll as an AB and promoted him (on paper) to master along with another deckhand with a license as mate; i didn’t say I was doing it until he saw the log. Jeaux wasn’t happy with either of us, but respected my decision. Needless to say I have been working elsewhere since that trip.
In some cases it’s bullshit, but in others sometimes good men let an lesser man take command as it’s the lesser of two evils. I’d rather Sail under an idiot captain than have an idiot mate.
On a similar topic, I noticed the US Flag overseas tuna fleet are all hiring paper captains now. Seems you must have all the proper licenses and certs, but you are not being hired as Master, merely “Navigator”. What do you do, just stay in your cabin the whole voyage while the company goons run the show? They used none such strange titles for the Chief Engineer position they were hiring, I noticed.
[QUOTE=tugsailor;165735]Generally speaking, I do not approve of the “paper captain” thing, but it exists. And in some circumstances it improves safety.
I wish that AIVIQ had had a paper captain in 2012, and that Shell had hired a “towing captain” with local knowledge that knew what he was doing. If so KULLUK would not have gone on the rocks.[/QUOTE]
How would a “paper Captain” improve safety? What kind of fool would take on the responsibility as a captain without the knowledge or skill required? And how would the chain of command look like on a vessel with a paper captain?
[QUOTE=Kraken;165727]It sounds like a recipe for disaster.[/QUOTE]
It is just that. It is like one would see is a third world country. They proceed on to one of the most pristine areas of the world to look for oil and all is just wonderful based on the regulatory agencies signing off on this. There is NO good reason to drill up there except to save the rights for the lease as I understand considering the falling price of oil.
Stay HOME until you get a real plan with your paper “captains or anchor captains” and real engineers you seem to need. There are professionals that have worked in waters like this before. I have a bad feeling about this. I hope they are lucky, luck seems to be the best hope for this clown car so far.
If this all goes down the tubes [U]again[/U] BSEE, USCG, ABS, BOERM and all the other regulatory agencies should be thrown in prison. They are responsible for protecting the assets of the people of the USA. Alaska is a mighty big asset that deserves and needs serious protecting.
On a three watch system you only work 8 hrs and you are allowed 12 hrs. So they will most likely be the officer of the watch for 8 hrs (navigational watch) and do his “overtime” as a winch operator for 4 hrs. This is common for like OSVs when they switch to “I” class for a big flotel. They still stand 12 hrs straight but you are the OICNW for 8 hrs and a lookout for four. As long as they log in and out properly in the ships log they will not violate any rules.
So the paper captain cannot move anchors around? I would assume this means he does not have an unlimited license moving anchors but he has moved anchors well with smaller vessels. So they bring in a “paper” captain to be in over all charge of the vessel at all times. Does this paper captain have Alaska waters experience?
This scenario I see is this: PLEASE correct me if I am wrong
We have no licensed captains that have experience moving anchors with a ship this big so we are going to bring up a guy that is great on smaller ships moving anchors and we think he will catch on, it will be like OJT.
We have masters of anchor boats of unlimited tonnage like we will be using there but we don’t really think they are that great but they are really nice guys so we will put them in overall charge, except of course when important things go on like towing and anchor handling. Then they will be like the sacrificial lamb or the hero…depends on how things work out.
Well, I guess jobs are hard to come by and egos need stoking. I hope they have a real engineer on board this time.
[QUOTE=Fraqrat;165719]How can the master be a “paper captain” in command of a high profile vessel and not be able to operate it or its deck gear? Not being a smart ass just looking for clarification. Also how many deck officers total onboard while underway?[/QUOTE]
What Joe Boss wants JB gets. The word is he is the only reason they are in this position. No one knows why? All onboard know they have no experience in Anchor handling, Towing and in general wouldn’t be able to take command of the Vessel if need be. It’s the elephant in the room over there. It’s really making some of the crew nervous. To make matters worse guys onboard say the Master is pushing 400lbs and is in poor health. Well, if that’s the case how in the hell did he pass the Shell physical that was required for the Arctic, or even his USCG physical? Chouest Docs.? The crew onboard need to ask themselves, is it really worth it?
So you're saying not only is the paper captain unqualified but all of the mates are as well? So what happens if this boat needs to tow or run an anchor? Do they watch a YouTube and take turns til they get it right? Id also still like to know the deck officer compliment while underway?
I want to know what captain has ever runs the whinch during anchor ops? We always have Delmar or Intermoor onboard to run the whinch and work the deck anytime we have a job that requires the whinch.
[QUOTE=Jemplayer;165769]I want to know what captain has ever runs the whinch during anchor ops? We always have Delmar or Intermoor onboard to run the whinch and work the deck anytime we have a job that requires the whinch.
Is Shell not using Delmar in Alaska?[/QUOTE]
I hear Delmar is making up approx. 50% of the Anchor Crew, on deck only. JB has Mates running winches so he can profit more. USCG should take note as they recommended after Kulluk incident that eco winch operators should be properly trained. Guys onboard said that proper training on winch never happened and there is only one Anchor guy thats competent on the winch. The others have zero training and hardly any experience if any. It’ll be interesting to see how much mooring gear gets damaged.
I have spent most of my career on AHTS’s, Delmar or Intermoor provides the anchor crew, including the winch operator, superintendent and riggers, they are paid for by the oil company not by ECO so ECO is not saving money by providing operators. ECO does get paid for room and board from the oil companies to house and feed the anchor crew, so I don’t know why ECO would provide operators and lose money, I do know and have worked with one of the mates on board, he has been running large AHTS’s and tugs for most of his career, he is licensed unlimited and is one of the best anchor boat captains that I have worked with.
Your right they are not saving money, they are making money by using their Mates as winch operators. Shell is compensating them for that. You are also right the one guy you mention is (from what I hear) the top Anchor Capt. with the company. He has all the weight on his shoulders. I imagine they’ll keep him there for the whole season. I’d hate to be him with that much responsibility and such little help. He won’t sleep for days.
It doesn’t make much sense, you would need one mate to run the winch and one mate to run the boat on each watch, depending on the watch system that they use, 12/12, 4/8, 6/12 or 8/16, they would need more bridge crew while the vessel is running anchors, the master and chief mate and /or second mate will be taking care of all the clerical work such as logs, PTW’s and dealing with clients and the office, that only leaves 2 third mates and maybe a second mate to run the boat and the winch. We always had two bridge officers on watch during anchor work, one ran the boat and one did everything else, Delmar or Intermmor ran the winch.
[QUOTE=tugsailor;165735]I wish that AIVIQ had had a paper captain in 2012, and that Shell had hired a “towing captain” with local knowledge that knew what he was doing. If so KULLUK would not have gone on the rocks.[/QUOTE]
I thought Shell hired a 3rd party Tow Master who green lighted the operation.