I agree with the Monroe doctrine statement. If it wasn’t for the US getting involved overseas we might have never had this problem….
The apartheid state of Israel may have never been created
What does Monroe have to do with this conversation?
The Monroe Doctrine established a defensive posture in the Western Hemisphere and had nothing to do with interfering in Middle East affairs but I get your drift. That door was opened by the Barbary Coast pirates and was an appropriate response to their interference with American shipping in the Med.
That argument has been used before.
The U.S. could stop this insanity with a stroke of a pen, stop all aid to Israel. Netanyahu would be jailed for corruption and charged with crimes against humanity at the same time. The only reason this obscene situation is permitted to continue is to keep a corrupt politician out of jail and pander to a block of American voters and campaign contributors.
They finally gets under way with all permits in place:
Here are some more “platitudes” from BBC:
As far as I can find out there are about 3300 Palestinian refugees living in Norway. The number of asylum seekers not yet approved as refugees and illegals of Palestinian origin is harder to find.
Not a large number, but relative to the population of 5.5 Mln. it is probably not bad. (You do the math for comparison with whichever other country you wish)
Norway take in a set number of “quota refugees” every year and has done so since 1948:
https://www.unhcr.org https://www.unhcr.org/sites/default/files/legacy-pdf/3c5e59835.pdf
In addition come the asylum seekers that arrive in various number, depending on the conflict situation around the world. (4919 In 2022):
Norway: number of asylum seekers 2022 | Statista
So far 72K Ukrainians under special protection are the largest number in Norway:
I know that “everybody” knows that Norway is homogeneous society of “blond and blue eyed Vikings” but the reality is that 16.8% of the present population is foreign born, and 4% are Norwegian born to foreign parents. Many from the Middle-east, Asia and Africa. (In Oslo the numbers are higher):
Correction: As of 1.Jan. 2024 there are 4 743 persons of Palestine origin living in Norway.
PS> At present there are 11 483 persons of US origin living in Norway…
Hamas can bring about a cease fire and a flood of food aid by road through Israel anytime it wants to. All it has to do is release all the hostages, and stop firing rockets into Israel. Hamas is the problem, not Israel.
We have seen enough casualty numbers from previous wars (remember Vietnam) to know that they are at best rough guesses, if not outright lies.
That said, Israel claims that it has killed 13,000 Hamas fighters. Hamas claims that Israel has killed 31,000 people. 13,000 would be roughly 42% Hamas terrorists and 18,000 or 58% civilian bystanders out of 31,000. Roughly 1.5 civilians killed per Hamas terrorist killed.
I do not know how that compares to other wars, but it’s a lot fewer civilian casualties per terrorist killed than I would have expected during urban bombing.
The Allies killed 35,000 people, mostly civilians, in two days of bombing with 800 planes dropping 2700 tons of bombs on Dresden, Germany (a city with minimal military significance) in 1945.
I don’t know how many civilians the Germans killed in eight months of bombing London and other UK cities during the Blitz in 1940-41. But I doubt that civilian survivors in London shed any tears for the civilians killed in Dresden.
18,000 civilians killed in Gaza out of a population of over 2 million appears to be far far short of “genocide.”
“Genocide” isn’t a number game, it is a question of intent. It is going to take years to get a verdict on whether what Israel is doing to the Palestinians in Gaza is actually “genocide” or not.
You are right, the “body count” claimed in Vietnam was “not a very good way of claiming success”:
PS> I believe the 31000 deaths claimed by the Gaza Health Authorities are civilians, not incl. Hamas fighters.
Lots of crystal balls in use here.
Hope you are wrong. This operation is a joint effort by several nations, incl. Israel, who is responsible for the security at the beach head.
“No US booths on the beach”, remember??
It’s nice to see that so many people are sympathetic to the plight of the Palestinians and no, I don’t advocate killing babies.
It’s nice that the Saudis are chipping in with aid but for perspective, this crisis is happening in their back yard. They say they are waiting for a peace plan to take effect before intervening further but history is clear that no such thing will ever exist with things as they stand.
Why is the US and the Europeans doing the heavy military lifting from thousands of miles away with all of its extra logistics? The Saudis, with area partners, have the resources to take control of Gaza, control humanitarian aid, eliminate Hamas and impose military control until a solution is found.
All this caterwauling about genocide and Nazis is pointless if we just keep feeding the monster without making significant changes to the cause.
Chipping in with humanitarian aid is noble and fine but we have enough problems at home without traipsing around the globe policing others’ problem
The US putting boots on the ground in Gaza is a huge mistake.
US “white imperialists and colonists” must stay out of Haiti too. It’s ok for the US to throw money at Haiti, but no boots on the ground.
It’s time for a black or brown country, perhaps South Africa to put boots on the ground in Haiti in search of a solution.
It cannot be the US in Haiti this time.
The rest of the World needs to step up.
The US should focus its near term efforts on supplying Ukraine.
I don’t know what the euros are doing, probably not much, but I do know the US taxpayer is basically a wage slave. We are an afterthought to our own govt. It seems like govt will throw money at nearly everything except to improve the lives of Americans.
Wouldn’t be the first time Isreal attacked a US Vessel
From a distance, it appears that those in the government who are keen on supporting Israel do not want to continue support for Ukraine
Could be wrong
Well, thank goodness the experts here, having already settled Covid, the Jones Act and other complex problems have finally turned their learned lights on the Jewish Question, which, pretty language aside, is what this is. After 1200-1300 years of conflict I’m sure a bunch of guys who drive boats real good have the answers the world is waiting on.
From what I have read, and being no expert, seige warfare within the Law of War is pretty straightforward. Cut off the food and allow civilians to leave when they either overthrow the militants among them or wait 3-4 weeks after the last living nonhuman animal is spotted in the region. As Col. Tom Kratman notes in ‘Training for War’ humanitarian international laws often come into conflict with the laws of war. Where this happens, barring any changes, the law of war generally takes precedence by virtue of precedent and practice, as fait accompli is a thing.
IIRC this is pretty well shown in recent avtivities in Sudan.
In one of his creative works, Kratman noted that purposefully starving the civilians in a city under seige is illegal, but denying food to a beseiged area in general to destabilize a military campaign is perfectly legal and the methods and results are the same. My own take is that modern PR requirements make this moot. I did think it was interesting that Israel appears to have the law on its’ side, buy Israel depends on the goodwill of her funding nations to offset the existential hate of her neighbors. I mean, nobody with 1000+ years of ethnic and religious conflict informing their opinion will suddenly hate Jews less by their throwing a couple of bags of food over the wall
That being said, I drive a boat real good and don’t have that habit whereby my expertise in one area inflates my ego sufficiently to make me think I have expertise in another.
Small talk will only get you so far on a forum frequented by sea going ‘expurtz’ when their taxes last year were used to fund Israel to the tune of $3.3 billion and Ukraine $12 billion.
Sympathy to Palestinians has nothing to do with it. Disgust with Israeli apartheid and repetition of the German government’s 1930s to 1945 social strategy and tactics should be abhorrent to everyone.
I thought the sarcasm was obvious.
Like said many times in the news all over the world; this is a joint project where EU, US, UK, and various Arab countries participate. It is not run and paid for by the US alone.
They cooperate to finance and bring food and other supplies into Northern Gaza.
Israel is in agreement, but want to inspect the shipment for contraband and control the distribution.
The US has the means and equipment to build a “floating pier”, but the components are in the US, thus need to be transported across the Atlantic before it can be assemble off Gaza.
The Europeans and Arabs are concentrating on getting the aid in place in Cyprus (an EU and NATO member) a short distance from Gaza.
The present charitable operation is not off to a good start. It appear that the aid ship Open Arms are drifting half way between Cyprus and Gaza: