I’ve searched here, google, NMC and I’m struggling, so hopefully someone could give me a gentle push please?
I understand the requirements to OBTAIN AB ratings, BUT…what do each of them mean?
What can an AB unl. work that a limited cant, a special, (OSV seems pretty obvious)?
Thank you for any guidance or sharp stick pokes, if I’ve overlooked something painfully obvious.
No tonnage or type restriction.
Thank you ll_domer. I appreciate that.
Let me ask a dumb question then…
What’s the point of individual designation of OSV, Special, Limited and Unlimited then?
Furthermore, when Mate checklists quote experience “or 180 days as an AB” it doesn’t matter the AB rating?
Don’t quote me on this but I think the type restriction AB ratings, such as AB(OSV) are easier to get. To get an AB-U/L you need time on specific tonnage vessels. The point of them making the various types was so people in certain industries such as Fishing or OSV could have easier access to an AB Rating, basically lowering the bar. Fishing and OSV You only need 180 days service whereas for Unlimited it has to be 1080 days AND it has to be on the Oceans or Great Lakes.
[QUOTE=LI_Domer;144584] I think the type restriction AB ratings…[/QUOTE]
Quoted ^^ haha sorry couldn’t resist.
Thanks. And not to chase my tail, or come off as a wise mouth, but with your example, wouldn’t that then mean an AB-OSV would NOT qualify to work aboard a Fishing Vessel, or an AB-SPECIAL would not qualify for an ocean Tug, or a AB-LIMITED aboard a 10,000 TEU container?
See my point? Sorry…inquiring minds want to know…
46 CFR 15.404 … (b) Able seaman. Each person serving as a rating as able seaman on a U.S. flag vessel must hold an MMC endorsed as able seaman, except that no credential as able seaman is required of any person employed on any tug or towboat on the bays and sounds connected directly with the seas, or on any barges except seagoing barges or tank barges. Each person serving as an able seaman on a seagoing vessel subject to the STCW Convention must also hold an STCW endorsement as able seafarer-deck.
You should be familiar with the CFR’s… they are online and free. You don’t have to understand them, but you should know about where this stuff comes from. Google… ecfr and choose the drop down for Title 46 - Shipping
Next, you post your questions on here or to others you might know and everyone gives you a multitude of information, most of it will even contradict what you have heard elsewhere. So, whenever you get info from someone always ask where you can go to read it for yourself.
Now that all that’s out of the way… My interpretation is: AB - OSV will be restricted to OSV’s, but say you went to work on an OSV and got your AB ticket and after a year of seatime or so you upgrade to AB Special. That is a non-trade restricted rating and you should be able to work anywhere with that, however, companies might only be looking for AB Unlimited’s… That is their choice to do that, mostly they are looking for experience. I am not aware of a restriction of routes for AB - Special or Limited. If someone tells you there are restrictions… and there very well could be… politely ask them where you might go to read about it for yourself.
Good luck!
[LEFT]The following excerpts are from 46 CFR and from USC 46 ( Sec 7312) should help.
§15.840 Able seamen.[/LEFT]
(a) With certain exceptions, 46 U.S.C. 8702 applies to all vessels of at least 100 gross tons. At 1east 65 percent of the deck crew of these vessels, excluding individuals serving as officers, must be able seamen. For vessels permitted to maintain a two watch system, the percentage of able seamen may be reduced to 50 percent.
(b) Able seamen are rated as: unlimited, limited, special, offshore supply vessel, sail, and fishing industry, under the provisions of part 12 of this chapter. 46 U.S.C. 7312 specifies the categories of able seamen (i.e., unlimited, limited, etc.) necessary to meet the requirements of 46 U.S.C. 8702.
© It is the responsibility of the master or person in charge to ensure that the able seamen in the service of the vessel meet the requirements of 46 U.S.C. 7312 and 8702.
[B]Sec. 7312. Scale of employment[/B]
(a) Individuals qualified as able seamen—unlimited under section 7307 of this title may constitute all of the able seamen required on a vessel.
(b) Individuals qualified as able seamen—limited under section 7308 of this title may constitute all of the able seamen required on a vessel of less than 1,600 gross tons as measured under section 14502 of this title, or an alternate tonnage measured under section 14302 of this title as prescribed by the Secretary under section 14104 of this title or on a vessel operating on the Great Lakes and the Saint Lawrence River as far east as Sept Iles. Individuals qualified as able seamen—limited may constitute not more than 50 percent of the number of able seamen required on board other vessels.
© Individuals qualified as able seamen—special under section 7309 of this title may constitute—
(1) all of the able seamen required on a vessel of not more than 500 gross tons as measured under section 14502 of this title, or an alternate tonnage measured under section 14302 of this title as prescribed by the Secretary under section 14104 of this title or on a seagoing barge or towing vessel; and
(2) not more than 50 percent of the number of able seamen required on board other vessels.
(d) Individuals qualified as able seamen—offshore supply vessels under section 7310 of this title may constitute all of the able seamen required on board a vessel of less than 500 gross tons as measured under section 14502 of this title, or an alternate tonnage measured under section 14302 of this title as prescribed by the Secretary under section 14104 of this title engaged in support of exploration, exploitation, or production of offshore mineral or energy resources.
(e) When the service of able seamen—limited or able seamen—special is authorized for only a part of the required number of able seamen on board a vessel, the combined percentage of those individuals so qualified may not be greater than 50 percent of the required number.
(f) Individuals qualified as able seamen—fishing industry under section 7311a of this title may constitute—
(1) all of the able seamen required on a fish processing vessel entered into service before January 1, 1988, and of more than 1,600 gross tons but not more than 5,000 gross tons as measured under section 14502 of this title, or an alternate tonnage measured under section 14302 of this title as prescribed by the Secretary under section 14104 of this title; and
(2) all of the able seamen required on a fish processing vessel entered into service after December 31, 1987, and having more than 16 individuals on board primarily employed in the preparation of fish or fish products but of not more than 5,000 gross tons as measured under section 14502 of this title, or an alternate tonnage measured under section 14302 of this title as prescribed by the Secretary under section 14104 of this title.
Check out the MARINE SAFETY MANUAL volume III chapter 16 explains it all.
Many thank to everyone. I’ve bookmarked the link to eCFR and Marine Safety Maual. MSM goes even further bringing fishing, sail, and offshore units into the mix.
Bottom line, my take now is to agree with Ea$yMoney. Non trade restricted. The rating is a way to quickly identify experience. Although I find the AB unl to be funny with no tonnage and the limited to be over 100.
Anyway… Thanks a bunch guys. My night time reading list just got a little longer. Off to research manning requirements… Ooo what a crazy Friday night…
If I could just ask, what are you looking all this up for? It doesn’t sound like you have much maritime experience, maybe I’m wrong.
Yeah you can ask…Career change. 10 years working private luxury properties and small private “yachts”. Much different world. So plenty of time on the water, but you’re right in the sense that I’m green to commercial. Also I’m not currently working and in USCG purgatory while my documents are being evaluated, so I read…a lot. Due to the size vessels I’ve spent the majority of my time on I’m pretty sure ill be getting an AB Special. Most of my experience is in Maine and because of the boundary line up there a good amount of my time is shoreward. So ultimately I’m asking so I know if Ill be limited to what I can work on with the special rating.
I just google searched and there’s actually a number of old threads about this on here. But good luck, you might as well just get an OS job in my opinion anyway though since you don’t really have the experience. I guess it depends on what the hiring managers think.
Thanks ll_domer!
What search terms did you use? I’m usually able to find those. Maybe I was wording wrong and I didn’t know it…
Don’t worry, I’m not going to gundeck my way into commercial. I wouldn’t ever jeopardize safety for my ego, a title, or a paycheck. I’m getting the biggest tickets I can, and going job hunting for an OS job. I just want to aim towards a reasonable goal and stay with a company as long as I can. I just research too much, and am anxious to get my ticket and begin the adventure.
So for anyone looking for an intelligent, hard working, motivated OS PM me! I have great luxury property experience so I can take out your trash, sweep the floor, paint, and fold your towels into little shapes. I’m also good in the galley. Thirty years old, healthy, non smoking, drug free, and speak work related Spanish. Desire 28 day schedule or less per hitch. Even or half time doesn’t matter. (;
Thanks again everyone for the direction.
I think I just searched AB Special. But maybe google knows I come here often.
As Mr. Cavo has pointed out at least once on a thread on this topic, AB Limited is the only AB rating with a tonnage requirement (to qualify). Another way to look at this is how big is the market for a particular rating? COIs dictate how many ABS a vessel may have, and depending on the type, size, route of vessel, a certain percentage must be AB UL, AB Limited, etc. I believe an AB unlimited can fill any AB position, but an AB Special only an AB Special or AB OSV slot. Like that.
[QUOTE=benjammin;144581]Thank you ll_domer. I appreciate that.
Let me ask a dumb question then…
What’s the point of individual designation of OSV, Special, Limited and Unlimited then?
Furthermore, when Mate checklists quote experience “or 180 days as an AB” it doesn’t matter the AB rating?[/QUOTE]
Different sea service required for each. Some are limited to a specific type of vessel, while others have limits on how many there can be of the total number of ABs required to be on the vessel. What each AB endorsement can do, and how many can be on a vessel are in 46 U.S. Code 7312
When sea service requirements call for service as an AB, it doesn’t matter which endorsement you held when you got the experience, as long as it was of a type allowed to be on the vessel.
[QUOTE=jdcavo;144738]When sea service requirements call for service as an AB, it doesn’t matter which endorsement you held when you got the experience, as long as it was of a type allowed to be on the vessel.[/QUOTE]
Does this apply for example MATE 500/1600 NC ; #4 "90 days as AB, Boatswain, Quartermaster or equivalent position on vessel over 50GRT (while holding AB) (if service began before March 24, 2014)
[B]“Service began before 3/24/14” define the 720 days of deck service requirement? Meaning when I receive my AB Special soon, (October 2014) that if I meet all other requirements (1-3 ; and other course requirements) that I will only need 90 days as AB on a vessel over 50GRT?
or Service as an AB BEFORE March 24, 2014? [/B]
Thank you for the link to the Code 7312.
“Subsection © provides that Able seaman – special may constitute 100 percent of able seamen required on vessels not more than 500 gross tons, or a seagoing barge or towing vessel. Able seamen – special may constitute up to 50 percent of the number of able seamen required on other vessels.”
[QUOTE=benjammin;144741]Does this apply for example MATE 500/1600 NC ; #4 "90 days as AB, Boatswain, Quartermaster or equivalent position on vessel over 50GRT (while holding AB) (if service began before March 24, 2014)
[B]“Service began before 3/24/14” define the 720 days of deck service requirement? Meaning when I receive my AB Special soon, (October 2014) that if I meet all other requirements (1-3 ; and other course requirements) that I will only need 90 days as AB on a vessel over 50GRT? or Service as an AB BEFORE March 24, 2014? [/B][/QUOTE]
I don’t know what you’re asking. Mate 500 doesn’t require service as an AB, either under the old or new regs.
Mate 500 requires two years total service in the deck department, and of this two years total, one year has to be as mate or master (any tonnage), and 6 months has to be as mate or master on vessels over 50 GRT.
Sorry, when I insert a photo it appears as a broken link.
Here is the link I’m looking at from the “Checklists” page.
(Bottom of first page. There is a #4 under MATE LESS THAN 1600GRT ; and a similar #4 under MATE LESS THAN 500GRT.
Maybe I’m reading it too much? Just looking for the progression so I can build my goals list appropriately.
Ideally, from what I interpret, I need to be on a vessel over 100GRT if my short term goal is a 500/1600 ton Mate.
Sincere thank you once again.
Ben
Over 100 tons if you want a 1600 mate, if most of your time is under 100 you will get a 500 mate.