Despite the approval letter, all physical time spent on boats counts for any upgrade. The approval letter may only say AB but you can still use your actual sea time for upgrades.
And “sea time credit” is not actual sea time…
Get every license, credential, and rating you can get your hands on… It will never hurt you, if you have time when you are off, go to school!!! Get your AB special at the least, do not get anything with OSV on it, get your 100 ton master/ 200 ton mate as soon as you can, get your crane ticket. If you have a license with an AB ticket, guess who will be the helmsman? Guess who will spend their watch in the bridge, helping the Mate? Guess who will be taught to be a navigator? Guess who will get to run the crane?.. Guess who will be on deck, chipping and painting and scrubbing???
[QUOTE=JW-Oceans;61335]Get every license, credential, and rating you can get your hands on… It will never hurt you, if you have time when you are off, go to school!!! Get your AB special at the least, do not get anything with OSV on it, get your 100 ton master/ 200 ton mate as soon as you can, get your crane ticket. If you have a license with an AB ticket, guess who will be the helmsman? Guess who will spend their watch in the bridge, helping the Mate? Guess who will be taught to be a navigator? Guess who will get to run the crane?.. Guess who will be on deck, chipping and painting and scrubbing???[/QUOTE]
All valid points. I never said NOT to get all qualifications possible, but the part of the reason people don’t get it is because they see it as not helping them. Also, some deck workers on ships never intend to go the officer route and believe it won’t benefit them. In other words, they are lazy…
[QUOTE=MariaW;61330]As fare as I can tell from the regulations I’ve been reading, that would make sense, since any advancement beyond Third Mate requires service as Third Mate, and specifically mentions “Third Mate”. If you’re starting out on deck, and not a 3rd Mate yet, any deck service counts towards Mate. The rules say you need 3 years service on deck for a 3rd Mate. You could be an OS for all that time. It doesn’t say 2 of those years have to be as an AB.[/QUOTE]
No, you cannot be OS the whole time. The requirements for 3M are as follows:
“(1) Three years of service in the deck department on ocean steam or motor vessels, [B]six months of which shall have been as able seaman, boatswain, or quartermaster, while holding a certificate or endorsement as able seaman.[/B] Experience gained in the engine department on vessels of appropriate tonnage may be creditable for up to three months of the service requirements for this officer endorsement;”
[QUOTE=MariaW;61330]If the approval letter said you fulfilled the requirements for AB only, and didn’t grant you sea time, then that would mean it would take you a year extra to get to Mate, because the year you spent in apprentice school didn’t count as part of your sea service. Again, none of the rules I’ve looked at mention time spent as an AB as a prerequisite for any licensed credential.[/QUOTE]
Despite the approval letter, all physical time spent on boats counts for any upgrade. The approval letter may only say AB but you can still use your actual sea time for other ratings, just not the “sea time credit” from school. You would thus have at least 4 months of sea time, probably more if you manage to get the sea time from your apprenticeship.
[QUOTE=MariaW;61330]Besides, I’m almost 100% positive that the lady at the apprentice school told me that the AB was an option, and you get sea time credit, not that you graduate with the AB. She even gave me the number of days. I’m going to call them again Monday to make sure.[/QUOTE]
“Sea time credit” is not actual sea time. It is the invisible time the approval letter grants you towards your AB Special that allows you to get it with less than the required 360 days on a ship. It is not usable for anything other than the rating the approval letter states it is good for.
I think everyone missed the part about needing a year (360 days) of sea time “while holding a license as master, mate…”. as far as I know, Master 100 ton is the largest lower level license that can be obtained without sea time while holding a license.
3rd mate (unlimited) can be obtained with several years of sea time as an AB.
[QUOTE=MariaW;61323]If you don’t get 360 days… that doesn’t make sense. To get to 3rd mate you need three years on deck, it doesn’t say you have to be an AB. So, are you telling me that first year you spent in the program doesn’t count as a year of sea service, that you’re starting from 0 once you get an AB? When you get to 180 days beyond your AB Special, are they going to tell you: “Nope sorry, can’t give you AB Limited, you only have 180 days sea service”. The official CG checklist says nothing about time as an AB Special when you want to upgrade to AB Limited, it only mentions total time on deck, which is 540 days.[/QUOTE]
You don’t start at zero but they will likely only count your actual physical days onboard a vessel. Any actual sea time you acquired before getting the AB Special will count towards future upgrades but the invisible “sea time credit” from piney point probably will not. The “first year you spent in the program” is not all on a vessel so it is not sea time. Only time physically on a vessel counts as sea time. You said you have to go back for another round of short classes after your 4 month commercial hitch to get AB Special. I expect Piney Point has an approval that after you have their completed their whole program and those extra classes you get a “sea service credit” equal to 2/3 the time required for the AB-Special. Since you already have 1/3 the time required you can get it then. The NMC may allow you to upgrade your AB based on days past AB Special but they will not count any of that “sea service credit” towards a mate license because it is not actual sea time.
[QUOTE=MariaW;61323]Forget I said unlimited please, that was a future goal. Since the sea time is the same, why wouldn’t an AB Special go for a 200 ton Mate, is there a disadvantage to doing that?[/QUOTE]
There is never a “disadvantage” to getting extra credentials. There is just not always a significant advantage in doing so. But sailing on the 200 ton license will not help you towards an unlimited license.
[QUOTE=Captsail;61344]I think everyone missed the part about needing a year (360 days) of sea time “while holding a license as master, mate…”. as far as I know, Master 100 ton is the largest lower level license that can be obtained without sea time while holding a license.
3rd mate (unlimited) can be obtained with several years of sea time as an AB.[/QUOTE]
That is incorrect. Only OCEAN mate licenses require time as master, mate, or OUPV, while holding a license. You can go straight from AB to mate 200, 500, or 1600 tons Near Coastal. Also, there is no such license as Mate 200 tons on Oceans, only Near Coastal. The only Ocean license for 200 ton is Master.
46 CFR 11.416
Service requirements for mate of near coastal steam or motor vessels of not more than 1600 gross tons.
The minimum service required to qualify an applicant for an endorsement as mate of near coastal steam or motor vessels of not more than 1600 gross tons is two years total service in the deck department of ocean or near coastal steam or motor, sail, or auxiliary sail vessels. Service on Great Lakes and inland waters may substitute for up to one year of the required service. One year of the required service must have been on vessels of over 100 gross tons. Six months of the required service must have been as able seaman, boatswain, quartermaster, or equivalent position on vessels of over 100 gross tons while holding a certificate or endorsement as able seaman.
As an aside Maria, I would recommend getting your information on requirements for ratings and licenses from the CFRs themselves, not the NMC checklists. If you had read the CFR requirements (or the checklist more closely) you would have known that time as an AB while holding an AB was required for every mate license greater than 200 grt. Always try to go directly to the source material as much as possible to avoid errors like that.
[QUOTE=Captsail;61344]I think everyone missed the part about needing a year (360 days) of sea time “while holding a license as master, mate…”. as far as I know, Master 100 ton is the largest lower level license that can be obtained without sea time while holding a license.
3rd mate (unlimited) can be obtained with several years of sea time as an AB.[/QUOTE]
You missed where the “mate” section began. The first paragraph starts with “master” so it doesn’t apply to my question.
"Mate:
Twelve months total service in the deck department of ocean or near coastal steam or motor, ail or auxiliary sail vessels. Service on the Great Lakes and inland waters may substitute for up to six months of the required service;
OR,
Three months total service in the deck department of steam or motor vessels operating on ocean, near coastal, great lakes or inland waters while holding a license as master of inland steam or motor, sail or auxiliary sail vessels of not more than 200 gross tons."
It’s interesting to me that you only need 3 months if you’ve got a smaller master’s license to upgrade. I wonder if it’s faster to get a Master 100 and then upgrade to bigger vessels, or get unlicensed time on big vessels and go through 3rd, 2nd, Chief Mate, etc. I wish the Coast Guard had a sea time calculator that would let you try different alternatives!
[QUOTE=MariaW;61365]It’s interesting to me that you only need 3 months if you’ve got a smaller master’s license to upgrade. I wonder if it’s faster to get a Master 100 and then upgrade to bigger vessels, or get unlicensed time on big vessels and go through 3rd, 2nd, Chief Mate, etc. I wish the Coast Guard had a sea time calculator that would let you try different alternatives![/QUOTE]
Not a smaller master’s license, an Inland Master 200grt. That loop hole only allows someone to go from master on inland vessels to Near Coastal, since the regs for Mate NC require you to have time sailing NC or Oceans. If you have a Master 200 Inland and all your time is inland you can cross over to Mate Near Coastal.
If you want to be Master unlimited the fastest way is to work on unlimited vessels. Upgrading to 3rd Mate from a Master 1600grt is VERY difficult. If your goal is to go unlimited before you start then you should go to work on ships for three years and get your 3M.