Just wanted to let everyone know that I just received my Approval to Test letter from the USCG. After 7 months, 2 evaluators, appeals and formal reconsideration’s I finally have a means to an end. Thanks to all that had positive advice. I just want to say that knowing STCW, CFR’s and not giving up is the key. Anyone that reads this and wants to apply for this upgrade from 1600 ton master to 3rd mate, DON’T GIVE UP. Coast Guard is changing their rules and minds faster than you can blink, also if you are a hawespiper like myself GET IT NOW WHILE YOU STILL CAN. I feel that in the near future this license will not be attainable by Hawespipers. At lease that’s what it looks like.
I’ve been trying since March of this year to get the NMC to approve me for the same transaction. I have a 1600 GRT Ocean Master and would like to go to 3rd Mate unlimited. I’ve been through the policy letters tirelessly, especially 01-02, have written 4 letters and have gone through 3 evaluators finally to be in direct contact with Mr. Klingler. I’m about to give up. You say you were successful, have you been approved for a 3rd Mate unlimited or have they imposed a tonnage limitation?
I was given my ATT Letter for 3rd Mate AGT Oceans Unlimited. I basically had to write a 2 page letter explaining cfr and stcw codes to them in my formal reconsideration. I was never a mate so it was harder for me. I went oupv, 100 ton master, 500, then to 1600 ton master. If you ever had a 500 ton mate or 1600 ton mate that is what they are looking for, the II/I OICNW on your license, if you have not ever had that you have to turn in all the assessments from policy letter 01-02 and 16-02. I started testing yesterday and I will go back on monday and I will tell you that this 7 modules of 3rd mate exam is no joke. If you have to test get you some murphy books and STUDY!! Good luck on your upgrade!!!
[B] Don’t give up until you have written your Congressman or Congresswoman for help. Explain everything you have done up to this point and name names of who you have corresponded with and what their replies have been. [/B]
[B]This is what I had to do and it worked miracles. [COLOR=red]The U.S. Coast Guard does not like hearing from Congressmen! Most of the problems with NMC stems from the fact that most of the evaluators don’t understand the policies and CFRs because in most cases they are young and just out of school. [/COLOR][/B]
[B] NMC as a whole has made vast improvements over the last year or two but the youngsters still don’t know what they are reading and are, for whatever reasons, afraid to ask their superiors for help. They “just say no” to us Mariners and cannot clearly explain the reasons for their no answers. [/B]
[B] Once my congressman got into the act I was assigned a new evaluator (Jennifer Hogge) and she cut through all the red tape with blazing scissors. Go to the top and watch your tax dollars work for you…[/B][QUOTE=gcapmatt;44579]CaptHH
I’ve been trying since March of this year to get the NMC to approve me for the same transaction. I have a 1600 GRT Ocean Master and would like to go to 3rd Mate unlimited. I’ve been through the policy letters tirelessly, especially 01-02, have written 4 letters and have gone through 3 evaluators finally to be in direct contact with Mr. Klingler. I’m about to give up. You say you were successful, have you been approved for a 3rd Mate unlimited or have they imposed a tonnage limitation?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=stevefoster;44649][B] Most of the problems with NMC stems from the fact that most of the evaluators don’t understand the policies and CFRs because in most cases they are young and just out of school. [/COLOR][/B]
[B]NMC as a whole has made vast improvements over the last year or two but the youngsters still don’t know what they are reading and are, for whatever reasons, afraid to ask their superiors for help. They “just say no” to us Mariners and cannot clearly explain the reasons for their no answers. [/B]
So true. One evaluater would not include sea time while the applicant held a 100 Ton Ocean Operator license because they didn’t know that was what the license was called before it was called Master 100 Ton. It took two appeals to get that squared away.
[QUOTE=CaptHH;44623]I was given my ATT Letter for 3rd Mate AGT Oceans Unlimited. I basically had to write a 2 page letter explaining cfr and stcw codes to them in my formal reconsideration. I was never a mate so it was harder for me. I went oupv, 100 ton master, 500, then to 1600 ton master. If you ever had a 500 ton mate or 1600 ton mate that is what they are looking for, the II/I OICNW on your license, if you have not ever had that you have to turn in all the assessments from policy letter 01-02 and 16-02. I started testing yesterday and I will go back on monday and I will tell you that this 7 modules of 3rd mate exam is no joke. If you have to test get you some murphy books and STUDY!! Good luck on your upgrade!!![/QUOTE]
CaptHH thanks for your info. Last question - did you submit any sea time on vessels over 1600GRT? They want to impose a tonnage restriction on my 3rd mate until i show time over 1600GRT. Good luck on your testing.
7 months seems to be charm. I submitted in May and just got my letter today. Well the letter is going to the house, I will see it in two months when I get home from work. Just like you it was the 4th round of letters. I have no idea how many evaluators I went through because I was never allowed to talk to any of mine.
I have a quick question to the floor. Since I can sign off all the way up to 2nd Mate Unlimited, and I did for three people approved to and that tested for 2nd Unlimited, why do I have to test? Logically it makes no sense, but I am not the sharpest pencil in the drawer so I am sure someone can enlighten me.
[QUOTE=PMC;35655]Maybe the Coast Guard will change the rules just for you! Perhaps the NMC can create a create a new upgrade category for all of those captains in your situation. It could be called : “1600-ton masters who are good guys and know what they are doing”.
Short of that, you could take the classes like the rest of us.[/QUOTE]
I just saw this post PMC. When you put it that way, it is hysterical.
I did give them sea time some over 3000 ITC but none over 1600 GT. I have been working on vessels that are just under 3000 ITC but also 1600 but for awhile i did work on some vessels over 3000 ITC. All the evaluators look at sea time differently. All I can tell you is to fight for what you want and what you know you deserve. Send your thoughts with quotes from STCW code, CFR’s etc to make your point. Hope all works out.
It is funny that ignorance is hilarious!!! Amazing how smart some people are when they get duped for 18,000 out of pocket for no reason. That my friend is funny.
have not read all replys that close but i know the cfr says after 1 year sea time as master on vessels over 200gt you can sit for third mate.
as far as the classes go get used to that. I got a limited tonnage master but i know if i ever want to break into the unlimited community i will have to take all the upper level classes to go with it.
i have a friend that knocked out his third after sailing 16 master for awhile. it was a lot of classes but he is a better deepwater mariner now.
He is now working on 2nd and chief mate classes. more power to him. he makes his money on ships not boat now.
If i could make money and had the time for the classes i would upgrade to 3rd mate and so on but i am doing ok limited tonnage now. i think i would go back to driving truck before sailing 3rd mate. been a captain too long. hard to get treated like a green mate again.
I’ve been wraseling with the C G for over 9 months trying to upgrade from a 100 ton to a 200 ton. They said I didn’t have enough sea time. I’ve had my 100 ton since 1973. I finally got the to admit the have lost all my sea time prior to 1995. The way the coast guard figures out GWT now days is crazy. The supply boat I worked on in 1975 was 199 tons. The same boat with a different name is now 99 tons.
I’m headed to my congress mans office on Monday. I’ll let u guys know hoe it works out.This whole issue with upgrade is proof that the CG wants all captains to go to Merchant Mariner School.
Good for those who have deep pockets
Good luck to those trying
Good news. In July of 2011 the USCG no longer makes mariners going for thier 3rd Mate take all the classes. That was a great Idea suggesting that if youre a good guy and know what your doing you can advance. I just hate it when someone has 20 years of sailing experience and has to take an actual class on shiphandling to upgrade. Whoever suggested that in this post was a genius. !!! thanks again. Leave those classes for the kids learning how to drive a boat / ship!
[QUOTE=CaptHH;35640]This question is mainly directed at Mr. Cavo but anyone that has any advice would be helpful.
Right now i am in a battle with the USCG. I have a 1600ton master upgrading to third mate. Why? To get my Unlimited Masters. They are telling me that i cannot go from master to mate b/c i do not have OICNW on my license ( STCW II/1) but I have OICNW (STCW II/2) which is for chief mates and masters. They say that a Mate can go to Mate but a Master cannot go, also because I have only had a masters license and never a mate that i would not have the OICNW (STCW II/1).
They want me to take 18,000 dollars worth of classes that i have already tested on just to get my third mate. I have a 1600 ton master which is higher than a third.
What’s the deal???[/QUOTE]
I’m in the same boat. I just submitted my paper work along with 50 some odd pages of assessments to go from 1600 o/c master to 3rd mate. I guess best case scenario they ask me to re-test for the 3rd. Keep us posted on your quest.
1600 Ton master has to test. If you held a mates license after 2002 you do not have to test. I am appalled at the coast guard about this. Uncle SAMs confused group is pissing me off. 3 Ed mate can go to 1600 master and 2 nd mate with a 70 question test but the reverse is not awarded. I know my stcw and cfr codes. This I bullshit!!! I have been training these 3rd mates for years coming out of the academy. Just goes to show you that when your responsible you always get screwed. Anyway. The way it was explained to me was there are certain parts of the master test that we did not test for and that is why we get the circle jerk. Like we use block and tackles, splice wire and really give a damn about the useless information that we have to test on that we will never use. Can we get a upgrade on some testing information? Sorry about the rants. Got to get it out. Good luck with the Nmc.
[QUOTE=CaptHH;55152]…Can we get a upgrade on some testing information? Sorry about the rants. Got to get it out. Good luck with the Nmc.[/QUOTE]
There is currently a Supplemental Notice of Proposed Rulemaking that proposes to change 46 CFR Parts 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, and 15, including the required subjects for exams. The comment period is open until September 30. Submitting constructive comments on the proposed 46 CFR Table 11.910-2 would be a more productive way to seek a change.
[QUOTE=CaptHH;55152]1600 Ton master has to test. If you held a mates license after 2002 you do not have to test. I am appalled at the coast guard about this. Uncle SAMs confused group is pissing me off. 3 Ed mate can go to 1600 master and 2 nd mate with a 70 question test but the reverse is not awarded. I know my stcw and cfr codes. This I bullshit!!! I have been training these 3rd mates for years coming out of the academy. Just goes to show you that when your responsible you always get screwed. Anyway. The way it was explained to me was there are certain parts of the master test that we did not test for and that is why we get the circle jerk. Like we use block and tackles, splice wire and really give a damn about the useless information that we have to test on that we will never use. Can we get a upgrade on some testing information? Sorry about the rants. Got to get it out. Good luck with the Nmc.[/QUOTE]
The same thing has applied for a very long time. Cavo is right as far as making comments on the docket and the USCG does seem more intent on listening to views that make sense. Besides that, I came to the conclusion that if something is a certain way and you are capable to conform for the sake of advancement, do what you must, just do it for your own benefit and use that experience to help illustrate to the Coast Guard why it did not make much sense for you to begin with. It’s a lot easier that way, then just trying to fight the current rules and regulations. Ranting is just going to side track the ultimate goal to advance. Why wait on a change when you can control everything else? All are capable no matter how the rules are in the mean time, right or wrong.
So let me get this straight; they gave you the green light on the 3rd MATE and approved you to test? If so man congratulations at least you don’t have to take all the classes. Did you submit all your asssesments with your application? Do you have to re-test for O/C if you already have it.
