Who can sign these off? Any 500t master with 3000 ITC?
1600t with 3000 ITC or does the master have to have a 6000 ITC?
I couldn’t find it on the new USCG letter.
Also I had some signed off on the old assessment package when I went thru
ARPA school. Will I need to redo all of those again
Or can I use the old assessment package?
I have finished my OSV assessment package and would rather go ahead
and test for 3rd mate unl. if my cap’n can do the assessments.
Thanks for any help.
Anyone with II/2 can sign it off. I dont think a 3000 ton osv qualifies. You need to find out exactly what he has as far as STCW ratings go because the US license is not what matters. (The ITC tonnage doesn’t mean anything either.)
[QUOTE=Capt. Schmitt;58991]Anyone with II/2 can sign it off. I dont think a 3000 ton osv qualifies. You need to find out exactly what he has as far as STCW ratings go because the US license is not what matters. (The ITC tonnage doesn’t mean anything either.)[/QUOTE]
What do you mean ITC tonnage doesn’t matter? My vessel doesn’t even have a domestic tonnage, and a 3000 ton OSV will certainly get him his 540 days over 200 ton sea-time, or a 1600 ton Mate Ticket. Testing and assessments are identical for that and for Third. What do you mean US License doesn’t matter? STCW tonnages parallel those of your domestic license, and the important STCW codes are now, and have been for a while, an intrinsic part of the license. In other words someone could not hold a 500 ton Master NC license without having already met all of the STCW requirements. What do you mean, “find out exactly what he has as far as STCW ratings go?” Maybe his Captain is a “her.”
Murph, any Master 500 tons NC or better, or any Mate 500 NC or better with at least one year of experience can sign your assessments. Provided they have read the CG guidance to assessor’s which is included in the assessment package. If they are signing your celestial assessments they will need Oceans as well. If you do not have at least 1.5 years of time on a vessel over 1600 domestic or 3000 ITC your license will most likely have a tonnage restriction. If you don’t have that you can get a 1600 Mate, later add a 6000 endorsement, garner the rest of your sea-time, and upgrade to unlimited with no further testing or assessments. Later Bro.
[QUOTE=Diesel;59047]What do you mean ITC tonnage doesn’t matter? My vessel doesn’t even have a domestic tonnage, and a 3000 ton OSV will certainly get him his 540 days over 200 ton sea-time, or a 1600 ton Mate Ticket. Testing and assessments are identical for that and for Third.[/QUOTE]
The tonnage limit on the CAPTAIN’S license does not matter as far as him being able to sign off on assessments.
[QUOTE=Diesel;59047]What do you mean US License doesn’t matter? STCW tonnages parallel those of your domestic license, and the important STCW codes are now, and have been for a while, an intrinsic part of the license. In other words someone could not hold a 500 ton Master NC license without having already met all of the STCW requirements.[/QUOTE]
It is possible to get a NC license with no attached STCW and I am unsure if “Master OSV” counts as STCW because while granting rights according to ITC tonnage it is not valid internationally. That is why I said he needs to make sure (see for HIMSELF not take anyone’s word for it) that the captain has STCW II/2 on his license.
[QUOTE=Diesel;59047]What do you mean, “find out exactly what he has as far as STCW ratings go?” Maybe his Captain is a “her.”[/QUOTE]
“He” is the correct word choice in the English language if the gender of the subject is unknown. (Phrases like “he/she” are not correct English.) Along these lines, it is Chairman and Congressman, never Chairwoman or Congresswoman. Those are job titles that have no bearing on the gender of the person holding them. (Also, one cannot be the chair of a committee. A chair is a piece of furniture. One can chair a committee though…)
[QUOTE=Diesel;59047]Murph, any Master 500 tons NC or better, or any Mate 500 NC or better with at least one year of experience can sign your assessments.[/QUOTE]
Again, that is too simplified. They MUST have STCW II/2 on their license. Verify for yourself or you are gambling with the NMC.
Thanks for the answers guys Captain Schmitt and Diesel. I posted that from my phone and didn’t have a keyboard to type fast. I did call the USCG to ask them but couldn’t remember what they said. ( This was two months ago) After reading ya’lls two posts it does seem that she said they needed something on their STCW, it didn’t matter what their lic. was. That was what was throwing me off because she said something like yea they can be 500t if they have Whatever.
I would have sent the one guy on here a IM if I could remember his screen name. I think it is Dcalvo or something like that. He sounds like he is in the Know at the USCG.
Do either of you know the answer to the second part of the question?
I started on the OLD assessment book and had some things signed off in it from ARPA school. Do I need to get a NEW assessment book since the rule change or can I continue using the old one? I noticed that the last letters to the assessment number is different. That is the only difference I could see.
How old is your “old” assessment book?
[QUOTE=AB Murph;59057]
I started on the OLD assessment book and had some things signed off in it from ARPA school. Do I need to get a NEW assessment book since the rule change or can I continue using the old one? I noticed that the last letters to the assessment number is different. That is the only difference I could see.[/QUOTE]
I don’t know what they are going to say about the last letter being different. Are they all different? I think they may have pulled something, or added something in one of the sections. I wish I could be more help on that one but I’m not able to fact check it at the moment.
What I can tell you is that I emailed the NMC asking the time limit on the assessments because it took me a while to get them done and I could not find anything stating time limits. I was told straight out in the reply that the assessments [I]do not expire.[/I] I am holding on to that email because I may get a different interpretation during evaluation.
[QUOTE=Capt. Schmitt;59059]How old is your “old” assessment book?[/QUOTE]
I took ARPA in May.
Example: assessment OICNW-3-1C in the old book is now OICNW-3-2C.
Both are the same assessment though. Today is Monday so I will call them again. I’m just shy of them because when I 1st got into this offshore stuff I got conflicting advise from them.
Here is what she told me. They assessor needs an II/2 or II/3 to to.
She said a 500t or 1600t MASTER will have an II/2.
II/3 is where you are authorized to stand a nav watch or something like that.
Mainly for 3rd mates and 200t and less captains.
I could use the old package as well.
Some of the stuff from my OSV mate could cross over if I ask for an evaluation.
Forget that I’ll just redo it to be on the safe side.
Thanks for your input Diesel and Captain Schmitt. You both were as she said.
Thanks again.
Dcavlo if something sounds strang please speak up.
I believe yer looking for Mr. Cavo
[QUOTE=Capt. Schmitt;59055]The tonnage limit on the CAPTAIN’S license does not matter as far as him being able to sign off on assessments.
It is possible to get a NC license with no attached STCW and I am unsure if “Master OSV” counts as STCW because while granting rights according to ITC tonnage it is not valid internationally. That is why I said he needs to make sure (see for HIMSELF not take anyone’s word for it) that the captain has STCW II/2 on his license.
“He” is the correct word choice in the English language if the gender of the subject is unknown. (Phrases like “he/she” are not correct English.) Along these lines, it is Chairman and Congressman, never Chairwoman or Congresswoman. Those are job titles that have no bearing on the gender of the person holding them. (Also, one cannot be the chair of a committee. A chair is a piece of furniture. One can chair a committee though…)
Again, that is too simplified. They MUST have STCW II/2 on their license. Verify for yourself or you are gambling with the NMC.[/QUOTE]
Capt Schmidt I was mostly busting your chops and you handled it well, so Kudos to you, but I was correcting some common misconceptions. I am not oversimplifying it, you are overcomplicating it.
Here is how: Notice I specifically did not mention Mate or Master OSV as able to sign the assessments. Maybe I should have been more clear in stating that all non-trade restricted Mate/Masters over 500 tons can assess, but I felt that was implied. Capt. Schmidt, What you may not know is that Mate and Master OSV both have STCW’s attached to them that are endorsed II/1 and II/2 respectively. There is a little parenthetical statement next to them restricting them to motor propelled offshore supply vessels, but they are nevertheless operational and management level licenses which can even be endorsed for oceans service. Wow, now it’s getting complicated. That is why I did not recommend that AB’s go around asking officer’s for their credentials because most likely they will not understand what they are looking at, just like I did not. I don’t think I would want an officer who did not know if he was qualified, signing my assessments anyway. One other tidbit of information, while the IMO does not recognize OSV licenses, many individual flag states have. *You will also find VERY FEW Master OSV license holders out there ( I know of one) because it is still possible to go from Mate OSV to Master 1600 with just sea-time and testing.
So again, any Master 500 ton NC non-trade restricted or greater (STCW II/2), or any Mate 500 NC non-trade restricted or greater (STCW II/1) with one year of experience can sign the OICNW assessments. If you want the celestial 1-1A thru 1-1F assessments signed they need to have Oceans as well. Basically, you can assess up to the level of licensing you currently hold. The year of experience required for Mates to assess is because the CG doesn’t want green Mates assessing people. Someone with a Master license has by definition at least two years of licensed experience.
Diesel, I did not know that about OSV licenses, thanks.
My point is that it is actually possible to have a 500/1600 ton NC license without any corresponding STCW license (although very rare) and I dont remember the poster specifying what specific industry he worked in, STCW being required to work in some and not others.
Oh, and to nitpick, no one on here seems able to read my name. Every time someone writes my name out they spell it wrong…
Sorry about the name thing…Lol
[QUOTE=AB Murph;58986]Who can sign these off? Any 500t master with 3000 ITC?
1600t with 3000 ITC or does the master have to have a 6000 ITC?
I couldn’t find it on the new USCG letter.
Also I had some signed off on the old assessment package when I went thru
ARPA school. Will I need to redo all of those again
Or can I use the old assessment package?
I have finished my OSV assessment package and would rather go ahead
and test for 3rd mate unl. if my cap’n can do the assessments.
Thanks for any help.[/QUOTE]
Read the policy letter, the answer is in there. http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/announcements/CG-543%20Policy%20Letter%2011-07.pdf
and to nitpick, no one on here seems able to read my name. Every time someone writes my name out they spell it wrong…
I believe that is because some go by Cap. Some by Cap’n. Some by Skipper. And some are formal and use the whole name Captain. Rarely do people go by Capt. That may be where the confusion stems from. Oh yeah, autocorrect does it too. :
"Read the policy letter, the answer is in there. http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/announcement...er%2011-07.pdf "
Correct me if I am wrong but that policy letter allows a person holding an MCA yacht skipper license to sign off the assessments for an unlimited 2nd mate.
To obtain that II/2 license requires a whopping 54 days sea time traveling 3100 miles in at least 6 trips with 6 overnight trips so that you can see what the ocean looks like in the dark. If it sounds like I am denigrating the qualifications I guess I should add that it also requires a 6 day theory class.
The policy letter simple states that the assessor must be serving on the same vessel as the assessee but doesn’t say that the vessel has to be anything other than something that floats so a yachty baiting hooks on a fishing boat can sign off the other deckhand for an unlimited 2nd mate?
Something is wrong with this picture.
Steamer, I believe the assessments must be done on a vessel greater than 200 grt on voyages outside the boundry line.
[QUOTE=Steamer;59135]"Read the policy letter, the answer is in there. http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/announcement...er 11-07.pdf "
Correct me if I am wrong but that policy letter allows a person holding an MCA yacht skipper license to sign off the assessments for an unlimited 2nd mate.
To obtain that II/2 license requires a whopping 54 days sea time traveling 3100 miles in at least 6 trips with 6 overnight trips so that you can see what the ocean looks like in the dark. If it sounds like I am denigrating the qualifications I guess I should add that it also requires a 6 day theory class.
The policy letter simple states that the assessor must be serving on the same vessel as the assessee but doesn’t say that the vessel has to be anything other than something that floats so a yachty baiting hooks on a fishing boat can sign off the other deckhand for an unlimited 2nd mate?
Something is wrong with this picture.[/QUOTE]
Most days I have a lot of patience for explaining things that can easily be answered without asking here. Today ain’t one of those days. I’ll give you the same response I gave before, read the policy letter.
“I believe the assessments must be done on a vessel greater than 200 grt on voyages outside the boundry line.”
By itself that would be pretty lame but the Policy letter does not even state that much. It only states that the assessements be conducted on a “seagoing vessel by a mariner who is serving on the vessel upon which the assessments are completed.” There is no reference to the size of the vessel on which the assessments are conducted.
The mariner conducting the assessments must “Hold an STCW endorsement at the management level (STCW Regulation II/2 - master or chief mate) valid for service on seagoing vessels of at least 200GRT/500GT”
Nowhere does the policy letter or other regulation state that the assessor must hold a USCG license, be serving on a US flagged vessel of a certain size, or require the assessor to hold at least the same or higher level license than that sought by the candidate.
Show me something that says otherwise if it exists but until someone can do that, it looks like either the IMO has allowed the MCA to hand out rubbish STCW endorsements that the USCG is happy to accept or the USCG doesn’t see any problem with a mariner with less sea time, training, and experience than many an OS to assess someone for an unlimited certificate while at sea on anything that will float.
This isn’t just nitpicking, it really does read so that Joe Blow, Chief mate M/Y Molly can sign the paperwork. Where does it say otherwise?
Directly from policy letter 11-07.
http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/policy_guidance_date.asp
Read page 3 paragraphs 8 and 9