Great feedback. Thanks!!!
I guess it might just depend on who evaluates your package at NMC as to whether you get the 1.5days or not as a engine or deck rating.
[QUOTE=power230;123960]Why does it pertain only to those rating and just engine department? Just curious.[/QUOTE]
Ask Congress. It’s their requirement (U.S. Code).
-
-
- Updated - - -
-
[QUOTE=BigTireGuy;123974]I just upgraded from AB to mate and I got my 1.5 days. Your boat needs to be on a 2 watch system, and it also needs to be documented on your sea time letter. It’s not just for engineering.[/QUOTE] The 12-hours of watch has to be “authorized and practiced.” Authorized means the vessel has to be permitted to have two watches (46 US Code 8104). Generally, that is only OSVs and tugs on voyages less than 600 miles. If the 12-hours is practiced, but not authorized, the credit should not be given.
I spent the last summer working on an OSV for 90 days. My letter of sea service states the days as 12 hour days. I am a junior at a maritime academy getting ready to take coast guard exams and my school says that they will not accept my time as 1.5x. This is preventing me from taking the exams which they administer at the academy. If the coast guard and NMC accept the time,I am curious as to what the reasoning is? Is my best bet to take the exam on my own at another REC where the time is recognized, or find a way that the school has to accept the time? Anybody have any knowledge on this?
The licensing dept at your school is the final authority on this. Without them you wouldn’t have all the other assessments and whatnot required to sit.
It sounds like your trying to get out of going on 1/c cruise or something like that? Just work on getting whatever additional seatime you need. The experience you get cadet shipping will pay off anyway.
[QUOTE=LI_Domer;128226]The licensing dept at your school is the final authority on this. Without them you wouldn’t have all the other assessments and whatnot required to sit.
It sounds like your trying to get out of going on 1/c cruise or something like that? Just work on getting whatever additional seatime you need. The experience you get cadet shipping will pay off anyway.[/QUOTE]
Well thats a bummer. I’ve been working on a factory trawler out of Dutch Harbor for a few years and need to go up this summer rather than my senior cruise to make the money for my last year here at school. Unfortunately processing doesnt count as days. I am trying to get my exams done before I go on senior cruise (which will now be the summer after graduation) so that when I return I will already have a license. Is there a chance I could take the exams at another testing center? I believe Boston has one.
[QUOTE=LI_Domer;128226]The licensing dept at your school is the final authority on this. Without them you wouldn’t have all the other assessments and whatnot required to sit.
It sounds like your trying to get out of going on 1/c cruise or something like that? Just work on getting whatever additional seatime you need. The experience you get cadet shipping will pay off anyway.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=saltedsea;128227]Well thats a bummer. I’ve been working on a factory trawler out of Dutch Harbor for a few years and need to go up this summer rather than my senior cruise to make the money for my last year here at school. Unfortunately processing doesnt count as days. I am trying to get my exams done before I go on senior cruise (which will now be the summer after graduation) so that when I return I will already have a license. Is there a chance I could take the exams at another testing center? I believe Boston has one.[/QUOTE]
It is true that your school has a large part of the say in your seatime and testing requirements but they are certainly not the only say. Your school may well not be the end of the road. The best defense against either your school, the NMC, or both, is ALWAYS the CFR’s. I have yet to meet an administrator of any type, school or NMC, who is willing to go toe to toe with the CFR’s and stand their ground. I say this with all humility after having been through four different license applications with the USCG. If you can show a clear citation in 46 CFR Part 11 (“requirements for officer endorsements”) that shows that you are in the right and everyone else is in the wrong then there is a 99% chance that you will emerge victorious.
I don’t know if there is any real legal basis for your school not granting you time and a half sea time, I could be wrong about that but there is certainly no basis that I am aware of. If that is indeed the case and you can prove that you have actually earned your time and a half then there is no basis on which they can refuse you. ALWAYS RESORT TO THE CFR’S. As for taking your exams at a location other than your own academy you should GO HERE to see what your options are. There are around 20 locations across the country at which you can very easily make an appointment to sit for your exams (provided of course that you are approved to test).
Best of luck to you and my sincerest apologies to J.D. Cavo (our resident NMC expert) if I have said anything untoward in regards to his profession, that was certainly not my intention.
You can probably test at any other REC I know people from SUNY that have tested at the NY REC instead of at school and other sites too. The problem you’ll run into is getting your approval to test from the CG. You can’t get that until you’ve completed all the requirements, so after 1/c cruise. Your school doesn’t make you take qualifiers or some kind of license seminar course first before they’ll let you sit? SUNY does.
[QUOTE=saltedsea;128222]I spent the last summer working on an OSV for 90 days. My letter of sea service states the days as 12 hour days. I am a junior at a maritime academy getting ready to take coast guard exams and my school says that they will not accept my time as 1.5x. This is preventing me from taking the exams which they administer at the academy. If the coast guard and NMC accept the time,I am curious as to what the reasoning is? Is my best bet to take the exam on my own at another REC where the time is recognized, or find a way that the school has to accept the time? Anybody have any knowledge on this?[/QUOTE]
Here is my question… what type of mmc do you have as a cadet? Or do you even have one? I don’t know what goes on these days. 20 yes ago at KP all I got was a cheezy STCW 1978 piece of paper with my picture glued to it. All I had was a lifeboatman rating. I was not an OS or Wiper or anything else. A cadet is neither an official rating nor a certificate of registry like REO. So how does something like this question even apply. I think cadet sea time is fairly useless without approved training program behind it. I think your school has you by the balls or clit, whichever applies.
Kid I sailed with at glorious TAL was the DEU. He had z-card. When he reported to TA&M a year later for his first year they made him turn in his z card to USCG as condition of being in training program. Don’t know if he got credit for that nearly 8 mos of sea time.
Thoughts, anyone?
“Why does it pertain only to those rating and just engine department?”
[QUOTE=jdcavo;124077]Ask Congress. It’s their requirement (U.S. Code)…[/QUOTE]
C’mon James, no Congress critter woke up one morning with the bright idea to introduce a bill stating that certain rules would apply only to members of the engine department. Someone at CG HQ or his industry handler told the CG to send that rule to Congress for official blessing.
[QUOTE=saltedsea;128227]Well thats a bummer. I’ve been working on a factory trawler out of Dutch Harbor for a few years and need to go up this summer rather than my senior cruise to make the money for my last year here at school. Unfortunately processing doesnt count as days. [/QUOTE]
If you are “working” on the factory trawler, you are not being trained and the time won’t count. You are qualifying for your license by completing a program that includes a specified mount of shipboard training This is not just “sea time.” For the time to count you need to be a cadet with no other duties than getting trained. If the time is not as a trainee/cadet. you need three years of sea time, not the one year of shipboard training. The recent regulation chnage is clear on this, 46 CFR 12.705 states “Individuals obtaining sea service as part of such an approved training curriculum must do so in the capacity of cadet (deck) or cadet (engine), as appropriate…”
[QUOTE=saltedsea;128227]I am trying to get my exams done before I go on senior cruise (which will now be the summer after graduation) so that when I return I will already have a license.[/QUOTE]
You only qualify for the license by graduating from the academy. You won’t get it before then. For licensing purposes, “graduation” means completing the entire approved maritime training program, it doesn’t include academically graduating and receiving a college degree if you still have cruises, assessments, or other program requirements to complete. Note also that the new regulation change specifies that mariners in approved programs (e.g. academies) cannot test more than 6 months before graduation, and only if all sea service is completed before the exam. So there’s no way you’re testing before a cruise.
[QUOTE=Johnny Canal;128253]Here is my question… what type of mmc do you have as a cadet? Or do you even have one? I don’t know what goes on these days. 20 yes ago at KP all I got was a cheezy STCW 1978 piece of paper with my picture glued to it. All I had was a lifeboatman rating. [/QUOTE]
For about the last ten years, cadets at state academies have gotten MMCs with OS and Wiper in addition to cadet. USMMA midshipmen only received cadet and, if qualified, Lifeboatman. USMMA were excluded by regulation from holding anything else. The recent regulation change for STCW 2010 removed this exclusion for USMMA. This notwithstanding, any time the state academy cadets received as OS or Wiper was not creditable towards their program completion. This restriction is now in the new regulation at 46 CFR 12.705 as I quoted in the post immediately above.
[QUOTE=jdcavo;128268]If you are “working” on the factory trawler, you are not being trained and the time won’t count. You are qualifying for your license by completing a program that includes a specified mount of shipboard training This is not just “sea time.” For the time to count you need to be a cadet with no other duties than getting trained. If the time is not as a trainee/cadet. you need three years of sea time, not the one year of shipboard training. The recent regulation chnage is clear on this, 46 CFR 12.705 states “Individuals obtaining sea service as part of such an approved training curriculum must do so in the capacity of cadet (deck) or cadet (engine), as appropriate…”
It seems more and more that cadets have no clear understanding of how their training programs work.
If they don’t figure it out now, they are in for a rude awakening when promotions and pay raises hinge upon valid credentials or upgraded credentials.
[QUOTE=Johnny Canal;128271][QUOTE=jdcavo;128268]If you are “working” on the factory trawler, you are not being trained and the time won’t count. You are qualifying for your license by completing a program that includes a specified mount of shipboard training This is not just “sea time.” For the time to count you need to be a cadet with no other duties than getting trained. If the time is not as a trainee/cadet. you need three years of sea time, not the one year of shipboard training. The recent regulation chnage is clear on this, 46 CFR 12.705 states “Individuals obtaining sea service as part of such an approved training curriculum must do so in the capacity of cadet (deck) or cadet (engine), as appropriate…”
It seems more and more that cadets have no clear understanding of how their training programs work.
If they don’t figure it out now, they are in for a rude awakening when promotions and pay raises hinge upon valid credentials or upgraded credentials.[/QUOTE]
I completely understand my training program and that completing the program at the academy gives me the 1080 days and credentials needed to sit for 3/m exams and that it is all necessary. I understand that processing fish does not count as sea days. I worked as “cadet” for 90 days on an OSV. The CFRs state that anyone doing 12 hr service on an authorized vessel with the exceptions of firemen, coal passers etc can be granted 1.5X time. Basically im just wanting to know whether the NMC and USCG will recognize that time as time and a half. The school does a poor job of helping us if we ever get “out of sequence” in understanding our options. I’m also suppose to get on a rig this summer to do some DP training as Ive completed the simulator course as well. School says they will not recognize that as time either. Mostly trying to find out options. Ive been in touch with the NMC just waiting for response. Thanks a bunch for everyones responses.
What are you trying to get out of? You still have to do all the semesters on the training ship. So it seems irrelevant to get more sea time from your commercial trip. Is the school giving you the day for day for your sophomore trip?
not trying to get out of anything. Simply would like to try and take my Coast Guard exams before I go on my senior summer cruise (which will be after graduation) so that when I return I can have a job rather than return, study and take coasties and then look for a job. This is the way its always been for those out of sequence. Until now. I don’t even care if I have the license in hand, I just want to test and possibly receive it after completing my sea time requirement. I’ve heard of some waivers out there for something like this.
You need to talk to someone at the CG to find out when you’re eligible to test, the school shouldn’t be the one to determine that, or at least it was that way for me. I took mine before my senior year of classes as i was in a unique situation too. It was a non-issue but I had to set it up with whoever the local REC handled academy stuff. If there is still such a person that’s who you need to talk to. Get on the phone to the REC and see.
I could have sworn that some students took the exam and then for whatever reason had to go on the last cruise after senior year. Usually becasue they failed a class or something. But I know they were letting people take the test in January before they graduated. Of course this was all pre nmc so who knows what its like now, School should have one person who is knowledgeable of what needs to be done with the CG. If not then they have no business being at an academy.
You can’t sit until you have all of your sea time. New rule the NMC implemented a few years ago. JDCavo mentioned it the other day.
That’s good because there’s no way in hell the Coast Guard would EVER issue a license without the sea time. They don’t take IOUs.