I just about can’t go on deck without filling out some damn form or another? I mean a JSA to effing chip paint ?? Come on?
You work for HOS what do you expect?
It comes with the territory, but really it’s every where, not just HOS. So don’t go thinking the grass is greener some where else when it comes to that matter.
Like said before, there’s a jsa everywhere. Doesn’t matter what you’re doing, there’s a predetermined number and order for it
Chipping paint? Well that is a pre-job meeting and pre-job paperwork, round up all your PPE, fill out a JSEA and discuss that too right after you discussed it at the pre-job meeting, and possibly a Permit to Work also depending on the Pre-Job and JSEA you filled out. Make sure you discuss it again at the Permit to work meeting. Okay, an hour later go chip paint for 15 min, then clean up, and come back up here for the same thing over again to paint.
Wow that is slightly worse than the navy. Harbor tugs are somewhat moving in that direction. But I think as long as our boats look nice inside and out, and we’re wearing steel toes than the terminal vetters seem happy.
Never seen one, don’t care to either.
And people wonder why nothing is made in the USA anymore, and there are no jobs left. The government and the companies have really gone overboard with all this inane micromanagment and bullshit paper work.
Wayyy too many lawyers in this country
Exactly! Job security at its finest. Taking an hour for each pre/post meeting to execute a half hour task
You’re the one that wanted to join us in the wonderful world off being a mariner
[QUOTE=Rebel_Rider1969;85119]I just about can’t go on deck without filling out some damn form or another? I mean a JSA to effing chip paint ?? Come on?[/QUOTE]
Dude you have a short memory.
Just a few short months ago you were motherfucking everybody because you couldn’t get a job.
Now you have a job. If I were you I would be shutting my piehole and showing my captain nothing but assholes and elbows.
[QUOTE=Flyer69;85158]Dude you have a short memory.
Just a few short months ago you were motherfucking everybody because you couldn’t get a job.
Now you have a job. If I were you I would be shutting my piehole and showing my captain nothing but assholes and elbows.[/QUOTE]
This post is funny!,
My shipmate also complains of every-time he wakes up he is at a dock & working !, and he has no anchor time to put his feet up
for a week… LMAO!!!
Oh yea. Way too many lawyers. So many that most of them cannot make a living. They’re lined up on the street with signs hanging around their necks saying “Will sue for food.”
But all this hysterical fear or lawyers and lawsuits is way overdone. The boat companies / oil companies are as silly about this as people who are afraid of boats because “they are always sinking.” It doesn’t matter how many JSA’s there are when someone gets hurt, someone else is going to have to pay.
Shit happens. Its just one of the many costs of doing business, And compared to the other costs, a fairly minor one. Be safe and be sensible, but most of this paperwork is of no benefit.
but most of this paperwork is of no benefit.
Except for the company in the court where their lawyer can hold up said paper work and tell the jury “Look the man signed the paper work saying he knew what he was doing and would follow said directions. How can you give this man any money because he didn’t follow the plan set down right here on this piece of paper he signed.”
There are two questions here, first, does filling out paperwork actually reduce the chance of an incident from occurring and secondly does properly filled out paperwork help in a lawsuit.
If the company has a good safety management system the answer is, in both cases, yes.
With regards to reducing the chances of an incident the JRA form can be though of as similar to a recipe for a cook. It provides a series of steps to accomplish a goal, in one case, prepare a dish for a meal and in the other to find and mitigate risk.
The argument against following a recipe is that the cook is so talented, brilliant and has such a deep understanding of cooking that there is no need to follow a recipe. The counter-argument is that the dishes being prepared taste like shit.
Aboard the vessel the average mariner thinks that they can evaluate risk just using “common sense” But most of the accidents that occur aboard vessels happen for reasons that, in hindsight, are beyond stupid.The fact of the matter is that, in many cases, mariners can benefit for analyzing risk in a methodical way.
As to the second, if you have never been to a deposition and been handed a familiarization form or a JRA that was filled out, here is the deal. That mariner you thought was such a nice guy? He is now lying his ass off and is doing everything he/she can think of to ruin the reputation of the senior officers. You will be hoping that the mate dotted the i’s and crossed the t’s. In this situation no mariner ever says, “I’m responsible for my own safety.”.
K.C.
I don’t get why people are biting his head off… all he made was a simple, yet true statement. The amount of paper work is getting out of hand. By the time you’re finished filling out the JSA for the JSA, an hour has passed. I understand doing one for a nonstandard job, but come on, doing one for watch change or painting (not over the side or at heights or anywhere dangerous) or something like that is a little much.
Sorry we’re not awesome like some of y’all…
[QUOTE=ryanwood86;85167]I don’t get why people are biting his head off… all he made was a simple, yet true statement. The amount of paper work is getting out of hand. By the time you’re finished filling out the JSA for the JSA, an hour has passed. I understand doing one for a nonstandard job, but come on, doing one for watch change or painting (not over the side or at heights or anywhere dangerous) or something like that is a little much.[/QUOTE]
If your system requires filing out JSA for a JSA and you’re spending an hour filing it out for routine jobs like painting (or watch change) then either your SMS has some serious problems or you’re doing it wrong. For standard jobs one form at the beginning of voyage should suffice. It takes us about 2 minutes to fill out. It takes about 30 minutes to grind through one line by line with the opposing lawyer.
K.C.
[QUOTE=ryanwood86;85167]I don’t get why people are biting his head off… all he made was a simple, yet true statement. The amount of paper work is getting out of hand. By the time you’re finished filling out the JSA for the JSA, an hour has passed. I understand doing one for a nonstandard job, but come on, doing one for watch change or painting (not over the side or at heights or anywhere dangerous) or something like that is a little much.
Sorry we’re not awesome like some of y’all…[/QUOTE]
If you think what I posted is “biting his head off” you apparently have never received a Class A, Grade 1 ass-reaming.
My comment wasn’t directed towards the perceived absurdity of the paperwork carnival.
More a case of amusement of watching a guy who finally, through fate or fortune, gets a job … then bitches about it.
When I got injured, the first thing that when through my mind (after saying OH SHIT!) was did I do everything correctly. The funny thing this was this one of the few times that I made sure that every T was crossed and I was dotted. I was just like everyone else and pencil whipped some of the more B.S. paperwork. I even when as far to make sure that everyone was wearing Hard Hats, Safety Glasses and Steel Toe Shoes I am not sure why I did it but I did. Believe me when I say that when it came time to talk to the Lawyers it made it much easier on my part because every policy was followed.
I was one of the few that read through the SMS books almost every tour to see what was changed. By doing this I saved my butt and the butt of crew members more than once.
I have not problems with rules as long as (A) Everyone follows them properly and (B) the company understands that because of these rules jobs take longer to do, if all of the rules are followed.
Trust me there were times that I pissed off my Port Engineer because I would not do something that was unsafe and I would quote the SMS rule. One time while doing a shipyard list I was told that if I listed any thing else as a Safety Item I would be fired.
[QUOTE=liftedlimo;85127]Chipping paint? Well that is a pre-job meeting and pre-job paperwork, round up all your PPE, fill out a JSEA and discuss that too right after you discussed it at the pre-job meeting, and possibly a Permit to Work also depending on the Pre-Job and JSEA you filled out. Make sure you discuss it again at the Permit to work meeting. Okay, an hour later go chip paint for 15 min, then clean up, and come back up here for the same thing over again to paint.[/QUOTE]
It sounds like you either have a screwed up system, you’re exaggerating or you don’t understand your system.
The guy that complains about the forms has a lawyers phone number in his back pocket.
K.C.
Each time you arrive somewhere in your car safely do you think about the time you lost buckling and unbuckling your seat belt? It mean, it must add up right?