What it’s like to work at suny maritime - part 3

Maritime Academy SUNY Maritime
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[SIZE=4][B]I’m posting this for JohnG because he’s having problems posting to this site
[/B]
WHAT IT’S LIKE TO WORK AT SUNY MARITIME - PART 3

If you’re just coming to this post without reading the post, and first followup, from Apr. 10, read them first. Otherwise you might not understand this. You can see them at:
http://www.gcaptain.com/forum/suny-maritime/14525-work-state-university-york-maritime.html

Today, boys and girls, we’re going to show more of the insanity that passes for management at SUNY Maritime. We’ll see more of the nonsense that one employee had to undergo during her annual review by her esteemed supervisor. That supervisor was hired by Carpenter even though she had ZERO experience or qualifications for her job. She’d been a paper pusher in a SUNY office prior. We also have to note that she’d been this person’s supervisor for less than 3 months. That employee had reported to Carpenter before.

These are some notes that the employee made immediately after her review. I’m copying them as they were given to me. Some are not directly related to the actual review, but show the insanity of management. I’m not the employee. The bold titles are written by me

[B]Thank you very much. Now go fuck yourself[/B]

Sports & Arts in Schools Foundation: 21st Century Grant partnership

I initiated contact between the Sports & Arts in Schools Foundation and SUNY Maritime in relation to a 21st Century Grant partnership. SASF had been my client for about 15 years before I worked at Maritime. The founder is a good friend. I set up a meeting and accompanied Bernstein and Dick Burke to the meeting at SASF and introduced them.

Several weeks ago I received an email from Bruce K, Development Director at SASF. He was trying to reach people at Maritime involved in the possible grant application and had not received a reply. I sent emails to the appropriate Maritime employees, telling them that Bruce K wanted to reach them. I was told by Aimee Bernstein that this was not my area and that I was to keep away from it.

I was reprimanded for simply passing on a message from someone because the idiots in the so-called Development Dep’t. were too incompetent to answer an email or return a phone call.

I was told, in no uncertain terms, to stay away from something that I had initiated, and refrain from contact with a person whom I worked with for many years in the past, including writing at least one grant proposal.

I assume that I overstepped my bounds by passing on the message. I assume that this was also held as a negative against me in my evaluation.

Note to readers from JohnG: A $1.8 Million grant was the result. That was because of this employee and her contacts. Without that, there never would have been a grant. I believe that Bernstein tried to claim all credit but Carpenter sent out an email thanking this employee.

[B]Establishing a budget when they won’t tell you how much money there is for that budget[/B]

Establishment of a marketing budget - Unsatisfactory.

I was supposed to create a marketing budget but nobody would tell me how much money was allocated, so dear old Aimee marked my performance Unsatisfactory.

I had been asked to prepare a Marketing Plan for SUNY Maritime, by myself. I note that creating an overall marketing plan for the school is not contained in the job description for my position, Communications Director. Normally, such an assignment would be given to the person with overall control of external affairs or overall marketing at the school, like the VP for University Relations, rather than the Communications Director, who’s supposed to handle PR. I can only conclude that Carpenter thought her to be unable to create such a plan.

I have no budgeting authority and must rely on amounts provided to me by others. I have not been provided with a total amount for allocation. I can only go on what we have done previously. How am I supposed to create a budget when nobody will give ma an overall amount of money available. Is it $100? $1000? $10,000? $100,000? $1 Million? Who knows! The idiots wouldn’t tell me. I asked and asked and got the “sounds of silence” in response. This is what I’m up against.

In the marketing plan, various advertising venues are described. On pages 15 through 18, I provided the school’s current advertising and the costs of each. That was the best I could do without being given ANY guidance as to the total amount available.

So my performance is unsatisfactory because nobody, including her, will give me an amount to work with. The incompetence is beyond belief.

[B]Note to readers from JohnG:[/B] Are you noticing a pattern here? It seems that one person is given a lot of work that’s really supposed to be the responsibility of others, but they seem to be too incompetent to be able to do it. Maritime also has an Executive Director of External Affairs. It is unknown what this person actually does or accomplishes. She gets paid a lot more than the employee mentioned here. The VP for University Relations is paid about DOUBLE what the employee mentioned here was paid. Yet they don’t seem to be able to accomplish much.[/SIZE]

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Just a bump to keep thread alive.

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[QUOTE=Rich Bogad;135805]Just a bump to keep thread alive.[/QUOTE]

Bumping to keep threads alive is only necessary when nobody cares about the thread to post anything to it. Or they want to poke you with a pointy stick about it.

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Seriously. If you hate the place that much why don’t you quit?

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Deleted. Think I know the answer to my own question.

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[QUOTE=New3M;136010]Seriously. If you hate the place that much why don’t you quit?[/QUOTE]

From what I know, if all the staff people who hate working at maritime quit, there wouldn’t be too many people left. I honestly cannot think of one staff employee who actually likes working at the place. They only stay because the job market is so bad.

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[QUOTE=Rich Bogad;136350]From what I know, if all the staff people who hate working at maritime quit, there wouldn’t be too many people left. I honestly cannot think of one staff employee who actually likes working at the place. They only stay because the job market is so bad.[/QUOTE]

This thread should also be helpful information for students and parents who are considering where to invest their time and money.

This seems consistent with one of the national college rankings that rated SUNY maritime as one of the unhappiest schools in the US.

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And yet it’s number 5 on the Return on Investment list.

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Throwing yourself in front of BMWs and Audis for insurance money has a good return on investment too. Doesn’t make it fun. Or for the feint of heart.

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[QUOTE=New3M;136355]And yet it’s number 5 on the Return on Investment list.[/QUOTE]

IF a kid actually manages to graduate. According to NYS Education Department stats, only 21.8% of entering freshmen manage to graduate in 4 years. Only 36.2% manage to graduate after 5 years, and only 44% manage to do it after a whopping 6 years.

SUNY Maritime has one of the lower graduation rates among SUNY colleges. Could part of that be due to the time kids have to waste on playing pretend US Navy in the regiment rather than learning useful stuff? Isn’t it funny how Maritime trumpets how much a kid can make after graduation but hides the fact the the chances of actually graduating from the place ain’t great. Maybe, just maybe, if they devoted more to academics and less to nonsense like the regiment, and hiring completely unqualified senior administrators with zero experience, the graduation rate might go up.

By the way, one of the few qualified people who worked there told me a story about a meeting with an alumnus who was CEO of a large company that had nothing to do with ships. The senior administrators at Maritime were trumpeting how they emphasized “training”. The alumnus responded with: “You can train a monkey. You don’t teach the kids how to think, and that’s what they need.”

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[QUOTE=txwooley;136362]Throwing yourself in front of BMWs and Audis for insurance money has a good return on investment too. Doesn’t make it fun. Or for the feint of heart.[/QUOTE]

Who said it was fun? Nobody. But if you want to make $100k/year at the age of 23, it’s not all that bad. And its a relatively cheap education for what you get.

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[QUOTE=Rich Bogad;136363]IF a kid actually manages to graduate. According to NYS Education Department stats, only 21.8% of entering freshmen manage to graduate in 4 years. Only 36.2% manage to graduate after 5 years, and only 44% manage to do it after a whopping 6 years.

SUNY Maritime has one of the lower graduation rates among SUNY colleges. Could part of that be due to the time kids have to waste on playing pretend US Navy in the regiment rather than learning useful stuff? Isn’t it funny how Maritime trumpets how much a kid can make after graduation but hides the fact the the chances of actually graduating from the place ain’t great. Maybe, just maybe, if they devoted more to academics and less to nonsense like the regiment, and hiring completely unqualified senior administrators with zero experience, the graduation rate might go up.

By the way, one of the few qualified people who worked there told me a story about a meeting with an alumnus who was CEO of a large company that had nothing to do with ships. The senior administrators at Maritime were trumpeting how they emphasized “training”. The alumnus responded with: “You can train a monkey. You don’t teach the kids how to think, and that’s what they need.”[/QUOTE]

I think those numbers might be a bit skewed. I came in with a MUG class of over 330. We graduated around 150 in 4 years. One kid took 9 years to graduate. But there are a lot of factors that go into that. You might be surprised at how many kids go because Dad or Uncle Jim went there and they pretty much get forced into it, hate it, and leave. There were kids that were just plain lazy and didn’t go to class. It’s a lot of responsibility thrown at an 18 year old to get up every morning and go stand outside with your thumb up your ass for a half hour. Then you have to make yourself go to class…where you take a lot more courses than most of the “better” colleges around the county. I graduated with close to 200 credits. Yes there were some that just didn’t like the bullshit and left because of it. That’s their decision. There were some who made our MUG cruise and decided that they didn’t want to be puking their brains out for the rest of their professional lives, or couldn’t deal with being away from home or their significant other for half of their lives. You can’t place all of the blame on the senior administration. These ‘kids’ are all adults who made their own decision.

The training is necessary. You don’t have a maritime background. When you step foot on a ship the first day as a new 3M or 3A/E you better have had some sort of training so if the shit hits the fan upon departure, you have some idea of what to do. It’s not up to the guys onboard to hold your hand and make sure you know which way is the pointy end and which way is the flat end or how to put on a fire suit. If you don’t, then you don’t last long. If somebody plans on sailing, the degree they get from these schools doesn’t make a bit of difference. Sure it will help them if and when they decide to move shoreside, but onboard nobody cares what your Bachelors or Masters is in.

There was saying when I was there, and it probably still goes on today: “It’s a bad place to be, but a good place to be from.”

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The numbers are right from the NYSED website. Stats don’t lie. They track the years 2000 through 2012 Every single SUNY school has a person who compiles the stats and sends them in. The fact is that maritime graduation stats are abysmal and that is wholly the fault of the administration, and has been for years.

http://www.highered.nysed.gov/oris/gradrates/byinstitution/sunybacc.htm

The “training” you quote is actually “teaching”. It’s no different than teaching JAVA to a computer science major, or Accounting to an accounting major. The “training” that he idiot administrators at Maritime were referring to was the nonsensical military type training.

"There was saying when I was there, and it probably still goes on today: “It’s a bad place to be, but a good place to be from.”

That says it all. The kids hate the place and can’t wait to escape. According to the 2012 annual report on the school’s website, alumni donated a whopping $220,000 TOTAL to the school that year. That is an abysmal record, and clearly shows what the minority of students that entered the school and managed to graduate think of the place.

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I think I see part of the problem.

Nowhere in this job summary does it require a MMD let alone an Officers endorsement. How can you have guys that don’t or haven’t worked in the industry in charge of recruits aspiring to careers in said industry?

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[QUOTE=Rich Bogad;136373] According to the 2012 annual report on the school’s website, alumni donated a whopping $220,000 TOTAL to the school that year. That is an abysmal record, and clearly shows what the minority of students that entered the school and managed to graduate think of the place.[/QUOTE]

And do you know why that is? Because all of the money from the alumni goes to the alumni association, who is not allowed back on campus and hasn’t been for over a decade for reasons that started long before I was there. Why don’t you look up how much money they brought in over the last few years.

The nonsensical military type training actually applies to shipboard life. You don’t step on the deck place at school - you have to climb through hatches at sea. You have watch on the ship all night and class in the morning - you get called out at 3am for tying up, and still have watch at 8. Yelling ‘gangway’ and throwing yourself against the wall whenever an upperclassman approaches you in the passageway - shipboard passageways are smaller and two people usually have to meet half turned. Running the mug path and squaring corners - I’ll give you that as bullshit. But as somebody else said in a different thread, there is a whole lot more bullshit at sea that you have to put up with than there is at the school. You’re telling me that everything that happens at boot camp applies to the military? It’s a similar concept.

      • Updated - - -

[QUOTE=txwooley;136380]I think I see part of the problem.

Nowhere in this job summary does it require a MMD let alone an Officers endorsement. How can you have guys that don’t or haven’t worked in the industry in charge of recruits aspiring to careers in said industry?[/QUOTE]

While I agree with you, it does say:

Preferred qualifications:

Prior military experience, [B]Coast Guard license[/B] or service organization affiliation demonstrating leadership and increasing responsibility.
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[QUOTE=New3M;136381]And do you know why that is? Because all of the money from the alumni goes to the alumni association, who is not allowed back on campus and hasn’t been for over a decade for reasons that started long before I was there. Why don’t you look up how much money they brought in over the last few years.

The nonsensical military type training actually applies to shipboard life. You don’t step on the deck place at school - you have to climb through hatches at sea. You have watch on the ship all night and class in the morning - you get called out at 3am for tying up, and still have watch at 8. Yelling ‘gangway’ and throwing yourself against the wall whenever an upperclassman approaches you in the passageway - shipboard passageways are smaller and two people usually have to meet half turned. Running the mug path and squaring corners - I’ll give you that as bullshit. But as somebody else said in a different thread, there is a whole lot more bullshit at sea that you have to put up with than there is at the school. You’re telling me that everything that happens at boot camp applies to the military? It’s a similar concept.[/QUOTE]

The alumni association donated about $340,000 last year, solely for summer sea term scholarships. As far as I know, they made zero general use donations to the school. That’s just as pitiful. Of course, the fact that the college is at war with the alumni shows the school to be awful stupid. By the way the so-called “development office” has about 6 full-time employees and 1 part timer, and they bring in squat. That’s a brilliant allocation of the college budget isn’t it? To top it off, the VP in charge was hired with absolutely zero prior qualifications or experience. That’s just stunning.

As for the rest, I’m certainly glad that you think someone should fork out 100 grand to learn that passageways are narrow, ships have hatches, and you might have to work overnight sometime.

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Rich usually I enjoy reading your posts, however you do a great disservice to your credibility by blasting the value of the training received. It seems more and more like you never went to school there or worked on a merchant ship.

  1. The alumni should be allowed to donate their money where ever they want, the sst scholarships are a great cause and support the students directly.

  2. the training is valuable. the deck and engine training anyway, you seem to be confusing all that with the regimental stuff. They shouldn’t be wasting money hiring regimental officers though and instead hire more license faculty.

  3. why do you keep posting here. It just makes it seem like you’re one of the incompetent administrators. Instead why don’t you set up a scandal so you can leak a good story to News 12 The Bronx or NY1, hell at least the Bronx Times-Reporter. Go ahead and write a letter to the editor and see if Bronx Times-Reporter will publish it.

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I might be wrong but I believe the money that the alumni association donates is interest on the money they have in the bank. If that’s the case they got a decent fund.

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[QUOTE=LI_Domer;136386]Rich usually I enjoy reading your posts, however you do a great disservice to your credibility by blasting the value of the training received. It seems more and more like you never went to school there or worked on a merchant ship.

  1. The alumni should be allowed to donate their money where ever they want, the sst scholarships are a great cause and support the students directly.

  2. the training is valuable. the deck and engine training anyway, you seem to be confusing all that with the regimental stuff. They shouldn’t be wasting money hiring regimental officers though and instead hire more license faculty.

  3. why do you keep posting here. It just makes it seem like you’re one of the incompetent administrators. Instead why don’t you set up a scandal so you can leak a good story to News 12 The Bronx or NY1, hell at least the Bronx Times-Reporter. Go ahead and write a letter to the editor and see if Bronx Times-Reporter will publish it.[/QUOTE]

!. I agree wholeheartedly that they should be able to donate as they wish, and scholarship donations help deserving students defray the high cost of college. My point is that the TOTAL of all alumni donations is abysmal, That indicates a deep dissatisfaction with the school by alumni. As NYS funds become tighter and tighter, those donations become more important. Maritime has done nothing to create a better environment for the students and satisfaction with the school.

  1. You are confusing training, with education. The things the kids learn about handling a ship, etc. are very valuable. As I said somewhere else, it’s no different than Accounting majors learning Accounting, or Computer Science majors learning JAVA, etc. They prepare students to get a job upon graduation. However Maritime has that confused with “training” of officers as it’s done in the military; things like “leadership” in the regiment, etc. Someone can sign up for the graduate program, with license, and complete all the requirements for that license in two years, without putting up with all the regiment stuff.

3, Within the SUNY system, Maritime has a very poor reputation for management competence and educational attainment. A 20 something percent 4 year graduation are is just awful. Believe it or not, Carpenter set out from almost day one to try to improve the educational standards. When she first found out about the low academic performance, she was alarmed. Unfortunately for her, she did not know how to work effectively with the faculty and the minefields known as tenure and the UUP. She could not reconcile the fact that the faculty were not equivalent to junior officers in the Navy.

Craine, her predecessor, showed zero interest in academic achievement. All he cared about was getting bodies to pay tuition and, thus, increase allotments from Albany; having the kids in the regiment look all spit and polish, and whether things like door handles were polished and what colors of flowers planted around the campus. Yes, that last thing was a big priority for him. Craine specifically ordered people who knew the true state of academics to bury that info, under threat of firing.

I put stuff here because it’s read by faculty, staff, and people in Albany. That is the only audience that is ever going to make positive changes at the school.

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[QUOTE=Rich Bogad;136383]The alumni association donated about $340,000 last year, solely for summer sea term scholarships. As far as I know, they made zero general use donations to the school. That’s just as pitiful. Of course, the fact that the college is at war with the alumni shows the school to be awful stupid.[/QUOTE]

The full story is that the school forced the Alumni Association off campus in 2004 and sued them for use of any name regarding the school (that’s why they’re the "Fort Schuyler Maritime Alumni Association, and not, say, “the SUNY Maritime Alumni Assoc.”). The issue was that the school admin insisted that Maritime College be able to use any and all donations as they see fit across any program. My understanding is that the FSMAA wanted their donations to go towards license programs exclusively and didn’t agree that their funds could go towards non-regimental/non-license programs which they did not support. Note that in the early 2000s the school was in near crisis, enrollment was down and it’s incredibly expensive to run a maritime training academy off the tuition of 600 students while scrapping funds from the state and MARAD. The administration viewed non-reg students as the answer (increased revenue with only negligible increase in expenses), and increasing enrollment by any means has been the constant drumbeat ever since. In 2003 the first class of non-reg started, but the Alumni Assoc was vehemently against it from the start, and thats what sparked it all. Still today, this is why alumni donations are only SST scholarships – it’s a gift who’s allocation they can control and the school can’t turn down. It’s not that the Association isn’t generous, it’s that the school would rather play politics than allow them to donate towards the programs they support. I haven’t paid any attention to FSMAA news in a long time, but it doesn’t seem like this has yet been resolved.