SUNY Maritime graduation was last Friday.
According to the school announcement, about 220 students graduated. Maritime has a student body of about 1800. That means that just less than one-eighth actually graduated. Something is very wrong when that few graduate in a given year.
Doesn’t the student body total include undergraduates? Just saying.
Rich,
Can you find out the breakdown of how many students are full time undergraduates trying for B.S. Degrees? I think they may have some graduate school students, part timers who transfer credits elsewhere and associate degree dudes included in that 1,800 figure. Otherwise they would be packing about 1,350 cadets each summer onto Summer Sea Terms on the training ship…
Back in the 1980’s it seemed like we had about two out of three students graduate. Not sure if things have changed.
[QUOTE=Starboard Ten;137507]Rich,
Can you find out the breakdown of how many students are full time undergraduates trying for B.S. Degrees? I think they may have some graduate school students, part timers who transfer credits elsewhere and associate degree dudes included in that 1,800 figure. Otherwise they would be packing about 1,350 cadets each summer onto Summer Sea Terms on the training ship…
Back in the 1980’s it seemed like we had about two out of three students graduate. Not sure if things have changed.[/QUOTE]
The great majority of Maritime students are full time. According to Maritime’s numbers quoted on the website, about 1/3 are non regiment. According to Maritime"s stated figures, just over 1200 are in the regiment. That number falls at the end of the fall semester and spring semester as students drop out or flunk out. Then it picks up in the fall with a new group of freshmen. The number of grad students is very small.
If you attended Maritime in the 1980s, you probably went to a school with far fewer students than today. I believe the student count hit a low of about 800 to 900 in the early 2000s. The summer cruise is now done in two segments because they cannot accommodate all on one cruise.
According to NYS Education Dep’t. figures 21.8 of entering freshmen graduate in 4 years. 36.2% graduate in 5 years, and 44% graduate after 6 years. That would be quite a bit lower than the rough two-thirds figure you quoted. Whether the students take 4, 5, or even 6 years to graduate, the total number of graduates should be quite a bit higher than the 220 noted in the school’s announcement. As I noted in another post, Carpenter was VERY concerned with the low graduation numbers and tried to improve academic outcomes. She was also very concerned with the Coast Guard exam pass rate among students and tried to improve that also. Those poor numbers were a surprise to her when they were pointed out to her shortly after she started working at the school. Her predecessor, Craine, seemed to take ho interest at all in academics. He was more concerned with getting tuition paying bodies into the school.
I think there was another thread which spelled out the graduation for the license tract students which is what readers of this forum are most concerned with.
.
[QUOTE=Jetryder223;137520]I think there was another thread which spelled out the graduation for the license tract students which is what readers of this forum are most concerned with.
.[/QUOTE]
New York State does not keep any record other than overall graduation rates for SUNY colleges. There is no public record of variations between license students and non license students. Maritime does not make that info public.
That being said the non-license make up a small percent of the student body, so Rich’s quotes are pretty spot on. It is quite shameful that the 6 year graduation rate is so low. And when he said that 220 or so graduated in May, that included Grad Students. I could be off but I’d figure it was probably about 20 Grad Students and 20-50 undergrad, non-license students.
What really needs to be done IMO is some trimming of non important courses out of the Undergrad Curricula. I was BS Marine Transportation, it’s about 160 credits designed for 4 years, meaning 18-21 credits per semester, every semester. For those of you who didn’t go to college, most Bachelors degrees are around 120 credits. I can think of a number of classes that should be trimmed off. Physics (we already take Meteorology, so that should count towards a GEN ED Natural Science w/lab.), Operations Research(just straight up useless), trim off a humanities elective or two, Tech Writing(useful but not necessary), condense Macro and Micro Economics into one course, or require only one of the two. The only increase I’d suggest would be to make Deck License Seminar 2cr per section, so it’s a total of 8cr instead of 4. They’re lucky I’m not on the Curriculum Committee.
Those numbers actually don’t sound too far off on a rough back of the envelope calculation. It is a “Maritime” academy. Expecting someone right out of high school to know what they want to do is always a bit of a stretch. Some people find out right away that the industry is nothing like what they thought it would be (Master and Commander, Captain Ron, etc), others can do the course work and have no problem on the training ship but when they go cadet/commercial shipping that again the industry isn’t really like school. Some others just decide they want to study English or something and transfer. I expect that all of the maritime academies have a larger percentage of people transferring out than a larger school that has more degree options. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing either, if you want to go to school for boats, go to a maritime academy. If you decide boats aren’t your thing and you’d rather study underwater basket weaving, sticking around at a maritime academy to study it probably wouldn’t be the wisest choice even if there is a program for it.
Another thing that probably skews numbers for the academies is you have to be in the regiment for at least three years to sit for the license. Anyone transferring in to change areas of expertise (maritime related from underwater basket weaving) even with a lot of credits won’t be graduating right away.
I remember when I was at Maine, if you look at the posted watch bills it looks like about 50% attrition every year. It won’t be an exact estimate of enrollment ( upperclassmen doing other duties other than watch, staying in the school but dropping the reg, etc) but it should be close.
Personally I think its good to have schools that focus and not try to be everything to everyone. If I were administration the number I would be truly concerned about is the pass rate for coasties.
Anyways, I don’t have a dog in the fight or really care, just a few thoughts.
only reason non-regiment students are in suny maritime is because of extra money.
pointless…
I agree that there are too many credits to be packed into a four year program. Unless the goal is to cull the heard by encouraging students to fail with the overload and regimental bullshit. Many of us back in school didn’t really study the subjects too well, we were focused mainly on survival and getting “C+” or “B-” …
Rationing our time was a skill to learn. Getting guys to fail out was common. I had 2 roommates out of 5 who failed out.
If SUNY wants better graduation rates, they need to level the playing field with other SUNY programs: 15 credits per semester… Or, encourage some more marginal cadets to start out on a 5 year, 160 credit program. Otherwise many will continue to fail as always.
I think it’s a lot of contributing factors why that place has as much success as a Cleveland sports team. 1) forget that it’s anything like real SUNY college, accept the fact that’s it’s closer to a trade school then a college 2) have some leader ship that knows their asshole from a pot hole on the BQE. Stop bringing in people that want to enforce their ideas for ten mins before they move on. It’s like cleaning the head with someone new shitting in the sink at the end of every watch. 3) if this is really a college, train your facility. If your an unlimited master, with more salt then Noah, that does not necessarily mean you’re the best teacher.
The last one of hard for me to say. I have great respect for some of the instructors. Others not so much. But let’s face facts, if the attrition rate is that high the the facility is failing the students.
Same here, my MUG roommate and my 3/c roommate both failed out failed out. Except for the really motivated kids, not too many people are concerned about GPA, like you said just Survival. A lot of “D for Done”, except license courses which you sometimes need 80s or 90s in.
SUNY is an accredited school. Their degrees require ‘non important courses’ for a degree. If you attended any other accredited school offering a BS in, say, computer science, you would still have to take non-computer science classes such as English literature, history of ancient philosophy and architectural history (speaking from personal experience). Basically: quit your whining.
If people can’t buck up, stay sober and follow rules long enough to graduate then who would want that looser in charge of a boat or ship at 2AM?
[QUOTE=DeckApe;137548]
If people can’t buck up, stay sober and follow rules long enough to graduate then who would want that looser in charge of a boat or ship at 2AM?[/QUOTE]
The program is challenging by design. Deckape calls it correctly.
I’ve pretty much accepted the fact I personally will need to stay on an extra semester due having to repeat 2 courses. It’s sucks, but in the big picture, it’s still worth it. Spreading the coarse load over 4 1/2 years instead of cramming it into 4 may be a blessing. I figure when I graduate, I’ll still have a starting salary higher that most my contemporaries who stay in school to pursue a Masters Degree. My sister attends Northeastern University and EVERYONE there is on a 5 year program.
I’m not saying take out the basics that are required. Obviously it still has to follow SUNY Gen Ed Curriculum requirements and keep it’s accreditation(all colleges do). I finished so it doesn’t effect me personally. If you take the time to actually look at the degree requirements of some of the programs, which I bet you didn’t bother, you’d see that there are courses that can be cut out as superfluous. When I say ‘non-important’ courses I mean the ones that don’t meet the SUNY Gen Ed requirements or the license requirements.
[QUOTE=Starboard Ten;137541]…If SUNY wants better graduation rates, they need to level the playing field with other SUNY programs: 15 credits per semester… Or, encourage some more marginal cadets to start out on a 5 year, 160 credit program. Otherwise many will continue to fail as always.[/QUOTE]
I graduated in 4 years with 164 credits, as did all of my M&O class mates.
After 2.5 years at Maine I was ahead of the credit curve and bucked up to just get it over with. Unless you fail classes and must repeat I don’t see any excuse to take more than 8 semesters. It’s maritime, not party university with thousands of attractive loose women…get me out of there ASAP. In retrospect I would not have rushed and got in a few extra electives that may have come in handy but by no means would have taken an extra semester to do so.
I know Maine was pretty strict relatively speaking on GPA as was class grading. Often a 70 got you a D, an 90 only a B+ etc. Not all classes but that’s how it went in some of mine.
[QUOTE=jdcavo;137560]I graduated in 4 years with 164 credits, as did all of my M&O class mates.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=z-drive;137567]After 2.5 years at Maine I was ahead of the credit curve and bucked up to just get it over with. Unless you fail classes and must repeat I don’t see any excuse to take more than 8 semesters. It’s maritime, not party university with thousands of attractive loose women…get me out of there ASAP. In retrospect I would not have rushed and got in a few extra electives that may have come in handy but by no means would have taken an extra semester to do so.[/QUOTE]
That’s great guys. Guess I’ll just have to accept my place as the forum dumbshit for taking an extra semester.
I’m over it.
[QUOTE=LI_Domer;137544]Same here, my MUG roommate and my 3/c roommate both failed out failed out. Except for the really motivated kids, not too many people are concerned about GPA, like you said just Survival. A lot of “D for Done”, except license courses which you sometimes need 80s or 90s in.[/QUOTE]
You also have to realize that Maritime’s student recruiting heavily stresses “Make Money After Graduating”. You’ll see all sorts of references to the various studies that come out listing schools where grads make the most.
Unfortunately, that leads to kids ONLY going to the school for that reason. It also leads parents to push their kids to attend the school, whether the kid really wants to work on ships or not, and whether the kid is the type to put up with the regiment BS or not. If the kid goes as a civilian, he’s sort of treated as a non person by the school.
I have two neighbors that wanted their sons to consider Maritime, because of its reputation for making money later. I discouraged both. Neither was interested in a maritime career. Neither were inclined to put up with the regiment. Both went to other SUNY schools. One majored in Marketing and went to work for an insurance company after graduation. He’s done fine. The other will enter his junior year as an Electrical Engineering major and is doing well.
I know of one kid who entered Maritime due to pressure from his father; again to “make money”. His true interest was marketing. He didn’t last a semester as regiment and switched to civilian. However, he then felt like an outcast. At the end of the year he left - to study marketing at another college. I believe it was UNC. Any number of courses the kid took at Maritime will not be credited to a marketing program at the new school, so he wasted a bunch of money for his year at Maritime.
You would be quite surprised at the pressure on Admissions, at virtually all colleges, to get bodies in the door. Admissions counselors are sort of like salesmen. They “sell” the kids on the school and do not point out the downsides. Maritime is no different in that regard. If the Admissions office does not bring in the bodies, the head of the office will get canned.
[QUOTE=chend;137533]only reason non-regiment students are in suny maritime is because of extra money.
pointless…[/QUOTE]
Guess what! MONEY is real important. Without those students, Maritime would be in a world of financial hurt, just like it was before they admitted non-regiment.
It is not “pointless” for a kid to study engineering and take a job unrelated to shipping after graduation. It is not “pointless” for a kid to major in one of the business areas and then take a job with a broker, or freight forwarder, etc.
Considering their importance, it would be nice if Maritime treated the non regiment students with more respect, rather than mostly ignoring them.