Upgrading to chief mate on the "old system"


#1

hey all:

sorry if this is a repeat, but I searched the site & couldn’t find exactly what I was looking for…
at any rate, I’m upgrading to ch/mate and am pretty sure I fall under the old testing system, ie I believe I’m “grandfathered”. two quick questions:

  1. does anyone know the exact CFR where it lists who is qualified to be Grandfathered?
  2. should I bother going this route or just suck it up. as I recall the old ch/mate test was a real bear but the unlimited master was a breeze.

thanks.


#2

I am pretty sure you will not be grandfathered…so suck it up and take the classes!


#3

ouch!!!


#4

Hey Capt. Lee,
What was on the Chief Mate’s celestial part of the test that wasn’t on the 2nd/3rd celestial part of the test?
On sailings I got:
Parallel Cse&Dst and 2nd Pos.,
Mid Lattitude Cse&Dst and 2nd Pos.,
Mercator Cse&Dst and 2nd Pos.
Great Circle
Are there other sailings or just more of the same but more comprehensive?

Steve


#5

You have to take all management level training and assessments.


#6

“You have to take all management level training and assessments.”

yes, so it seems: after some research it appears that I am not grandfathered. damn. oh well.
so I’ll go through Mitags or whatever for courses and some of the assessments. my company, Helix, has indicated they’ll pay, but even so I was hoping to slide through.


#7

richard8000miles away, look on the bright side, at least they are not making you take a 3 days compass class for 695 dollars to learn the pointy end from the wheely end


#8

According to my interpretation of the changes forthcoming you will only need to take 5 of the management level courses to cross over as a 1600 ton master,if it is implemented as written.It would probabbly be a good idea to start with those anyway.Just a thought…:cool:
[FONT=Courier New][SIZE=2]
[LEFT][SIZE=2][FONT=Courier New]COLOR=#0101ff An applicant for this endorsement may, while holding
a license or endorsement for service as master on selfpropelled,
seagoing vessels between 200 GRT/500 GT and 1,600
GRT/3,000 GT, complete training approved for the purpose of
transitioning to this endorsement and the applicable
assessments of professional skills required by subpart I of
this part. The training must include the following topics:
(1) Cargo handling, including:
(i) Loading and transportation of all cargo types; and
(ii) Carriage of dangerous goods.
(2) Stability for all vessel types, including:
(i) Damage stability;
(ii) Draft, trim and stress; and
(iii) Bending moments.
(3) Marine engineering - steam propulsion systems;
(4) Ship’s business; and[/LEFT]
(5) Shiphandling for vessels of unlimited tonnage.
[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]


#9

guess I should have mentioned that I presently hold 1600 ton ocean master steam motor sail as well as second mate unlimited steam motor sail (plus the usual unlimited towing).


#10

[quote=stevefoster;27620]Hey Capt. Lee,
What was on the Chief Mate’s celestial part of the test that wasn’t on the 2nd/3rd celestial part of the test?
On sailings I got:
Parallel Cse&Dst and 2nd Pos.,
Mid Lattitude Cse&Dst and 2nd Pos.,
Mercator Cse&Dst and 2nd Pos.
Great Circle
Are there other sailings or just more of the same but more comprehensive?

Steve[/quote]

1-Celestial Theory Problem

2-The great circle distance from LAT 35° 57.2’ N, LONG 05° 45.7’ W to LAT 24° 25.3’ N, LONG 83° 02.6’ W is 3966.5 miles and the
initial course is 283.7° T. The latitude of the vertex is 38° 09.4’ N. What is the longitude of the vertex?

3-The latitude of the upper vertex of a great circle is 36° N. What is the latitude of the lower vertex?

4-At 2232 ZT, on 14 July, in DR position LAT 33° 52’ S, LONG 150° 03’ W you observe an amplitude of Jupiter. The planet is about
one Sun’s diameter above the visible horizon and bears 268.5° pgc. The variation is 15° E. What is the gyro error?

5-Parallel Sailing

6-On 19 November, your 0146 ZT position is LAT 33° 48’ N, LONG 25° 22’ E. You observe Polaris bearing 359.8° pgc. At the time of
the observation the helmsman noted that he was heading 224° pgc and 222.5° psc. The variation is 2° E. What is the deviation for
that heading?

7-2nd Estimate problem

8-ZT Sunrise

9-one gnomonic chart

10-ZT of LAN

11-On 3 February, your 0550 zone time DR position is LAT 26° 16.0’ N, LONG 112° 05.0’ W. Considering their magnitude, azimuth,
and altitude, which group includes the three bodies best suited for a fix at star time?

12-On 22 June, your 0424 DR position is LAT 26° 18.5’ N, LONG 124° 18.2’ W. You observe an unidentified star bearing 195° T at an
observed altitude (Ho) of 03° 30.7’. The chronometer reads 00h 23m 24s, and is 01m 32s slow. What star did you observe?

13-Lat by polaris

14-On 18 May, your 1030 ZT DR position is LAT 20° 41’ N, LONG 63° 32’ W. You are on course 106° T, speed 24 knots. Determine
your 1200 position using the following observations of the Sun.
ZONE TIME GHA DECLINATION Ho
1204 61° 54.6’ N 19° 37.6’ 88° 39.7’
1210 63° 24.6’ N 19° 37.7’ 88° 59.2’
Or a 3 star fix. I had a 3 star fix

15-I also got a Pitch problem on my celestial test

1-Celestial Theory problem
1


#11

[quote=Capt Leigh;27632]According to my interpretation of the changes forthcoming you will only need to take 5 of the management level courses to cross over as a 1600 ton master,if it is implemented as written.It would probabbly be a good idea to start with those anyway.Just a thought…:cool:

[LEFT][SIZE=2][FONT=Courier New][SIZE=2][FONT=Courier New]COLOR=#0101ff An applicant for this endorsement may, while holding
a license or endorsement for service as master on selfpropelled,
seagoing vessels between 200 GRT/500 GT and 1,600
GRT/3,000 GT, complete training approved for the purpose of
transitioning to this endorsement and the applicable
assessments of professional skills required by subpart I of
this part. The training must include the following topics:
(1) Cargo handling, including:
(i) Loading and transportation of all cargo types; and
(ii) Carriage of dangerous goods.
(2) Stability for all vessel types, including:
(i) Damage stability;
(ii) Draft, trim and stress; and
(iii) Bending moments.
(3) Marine engineering - steam propulsion systems;
(4) Ship’s business; and[/LEFT]
(5) Shiphandling for vessels of unlimited tonnage.
[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/quote]

It reads “must include…” not “[U]only[/U] these five.” Believe me, I wish you were correct, but…
[LEFT][/LEFT]
[B][/B]
[B]The full slate of CMM courses, with course duration and current prices, are as follows: (MITAGS)
<DIR>[/B][FONT=Univers 47 CondensedLight,Univers 47 CondensedLight][SIZE=2]Advanced Navigation (two components): [/SIZE][/FONT]■■
<DIR>[FONT=Univers 47 CondensedLight,Univers 47 CondensedLight][SIZE=2]Voyage Planning & Electronic Navigation 5 days - $1,180 [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Univers 47 CondensedLight,Univers 47 CondensedLight][SIZE=1]1.
[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Univers 47 CondensedLight,Univers 47 CondensedLight][SIZE=2]Electronic Chart Display & Information Systems 5 days - $1,250 [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Univers 47 CondensedLight,Univers 47 CondensedLight][SIZE=1]2.
</DIR>[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Univers 47 CondensedLight,Univers 47 CondensedLight][SIZE=2]Advanced Shiphandling I 5 days - $3,480 [/SIZE][/FONT]■■
[FONT=Univers 47 CondensedLight,Univers 47 CondensedLight][SIZE=2]Advanced Shiphandling II 5 days - $3,480 [/SIZE][/FONT]■■
[FONT=Univers 47 CondensedLight,Univers 47 CondensedLight][SIZE=2]Advanced Stability 5 days - $1,285 [/SIZE][/FONT]■■
[FONT=Univers 47 CondensedLight,Univers 47 CondensedLight][SIZE=2]Cargo Handling & Stowage I 5 days - $1,020 [/SIZE][/FONT]■■
[FONT=Univers 47 CondensedLight,Univers 47 CondensedLight][SIZE=2]Cargo Handling & Stowage II 5 days - $1,020 [/SIZE][/FONT]■■
[FONT=Univers 47 CondensedLight,Univers 47 CondensedLight][SIZE=2]Watchkeeping Procedures 5 days - $1,020 [/SIZE][/FONT]■■
[FONT=Univers 47 CondensedLight,Univers 47 CondensedLight][SIZE=2]Marine Propulsion Plants 5 days - $1,020 [/SIZE][/FONT]■■
[FONT=Univers 47 CondensedLight,Univers 47 CondensedLight][SIZE=2]Ship Mgmt., Personal Safety, & Maritime Law I 5 days - $1,020 [/SIZE][/FONT]■■
[FONT=Univers 47 CondensedLight,Univers 47 CondensedLight][SIZE=2]Ship Mgmt., Personal Safety, & Maritime Law II 5 days - $1,020 [/SIZE][/FONT]■■
[FONT=Univers 47 CondensedLight,Univers 47 CondensedLight][SIZE=2]Advanced Meteorology and Ocean Science 5 days - $1,020 [/SIZE][/FONT]■■
</DIR>[FONT=Univers 57 Condensed,Univers 57 Condensed][SIZE=2]TOTAL 60 days - $17,815
[/SIZE][/FONT]


#12

I just completed all my chief mate/master classes and I can tell you only 3 were worth going to. How many ways are there to navigate that you haven’t seen before?? You will not learn much but you will spend a lot of $$$. Its not the schools fault its just more of the same. Weather, Stability and Ship handling were good.


#13

Price at MPT
Chief Mate Unlimited: 360 days as 2nd mate or 180 days as 2nd mate plus 360 days as third mate while holding 2nd mate. Master Unlimited: 360 days as Chief mate or 180 days as Chief mate plus 360 days as second mate while holding Chief mate.
*Under the new system there are no exams to upgrade from Chief Mate to Master. If you hold a Chief Mate issued under the old system, you would continue in the old system and take the old Master Upgrade Exam, the deadline to upgrade to Master under the old system is February 2007.
Assessments Master/Chief Mate Assessments
Training or Certification 1) ARPA (restricted license if not taken) 2) GMDSS (restricted license if not taken) 3) Advanced Stability 1195 4) Advanced Shiphandling 4995 5) Advanced Navigation 1995 6) Advanced Meteorology 995 7) Advanced Watchkeeping/COLREGS 995 8) Advanced Cargo Handling 1695 9) Marine Propulsion Plants 995 10) Ship Management 1695 11) Medical Person In Charge 995
15.000/00 approx
USCG Exams
• Rules of the Road
• Deck General
• Deck Safety & Environmental Navigation General
• Terrestrial Navigation
• Coastal Navigation


#14

[quote=richard8000milesaway;27596]hey all:

sorry if this is a repeat, but I searched the site & couldn’t find exactly what I was looking for…
at any rate, I’m upgrading to ch/mate and am pretty sure I fall under the old testing system, ie I believe I’m “grandfathered”. two quick questions:

  1. does anyone know the exact CFR where it lists who is qualified to be Grandfathered?
  2. should I bother going this route or just suck it up. as I recall the old ch/mate test was a real bear but the unlimited master was a breeze.

thanks.[/quote]

See NMC Policy Letter 02-02
<o></o>
There’s no grandfathering. The old exams went away on 2/1/02, anyone testing for Chief Mate after that date, regardless of when they got their prior licenses or sea time takes the new combined exam, but do not test for Master AGT.

Anyone who tested for Chief Mate before 2/1/02 didn’t take the new tests and thus must test for Master AGT.

(Edited to remove smiley faces icons, no idea how they got there, they weren’t intentional)


#15

hey, I was walking down 2nd avenue today and I found US$18,000 cash on the street! now I’ll go immediately to MITAGS!
Bada-Bing !

[I]shift to:[/I]
suddenly waking up in bed and realizing it was a dream.
damn.


#16

Richard8000miles away

are you going to claim this on your taxes as income???:smiley:


#17

[quote=Jeffrox;27675]It reads “must include…” not “[U]only[/U] these five.” Believe me, I wish you were correct, but…

[B]If you read the previous section pertaining to the upgrade to Chief Mate (a) it specifically adresses ALL the classes and assessments,but (b) outlines only the five classes and “Applicble assssments” for the crossover from 1600 master. I don’t believe that is an oversight.[/B]

[B]Again, just my opinion, and as we know these proposed regs are subject to change.[/B]

[B]But I would start with the five classes[/B]


#18

It’s nice to get those classes under your belt. I want to say I did it over a year and a half, but also, what I learned the most was South Beach is too expensive and the beer tastes about the same…the rest was for the most part - useless.


#19

[quote=Capt Leigh;27738][quote=Jeffrox;27675]It reads “must include…” not “[U]only[/U] these five.” Believe me, I wish you were correct, but…

[B]If you read the previous section pertaining to the upgrade to Chief Mate (a) it specifically adresses ALL the classes and assessments,but (b) outlines only the five classes and “Applicble assssments” for the crossover from 1600 master. I don’t believe that is an oversight.[/B]

[B]Again, just my opinion, and as we know these proposed regs are subject to change.[/B]

[B]But I would start with the five classes[/B][/quote]

I wanted to read the section, but you left out the paragraph numbers (again). Yes I know, I’m being lazy…:stuck_out_tongue:


#20

Ok Leigh,I got unlazy. 11.405, Yes it does read that Master1600 to CM Unl will require 5 courses and assesments. Good catch. This being a revision it also introduces new stuff like the CM1600 endorsement(11.413). For that you have to go to the list of 9 schools/assesments [U](not sure which schools these are, do they exist yet?? Maybe they are the same schools as the present day Master/CM courses? Maybe not?)[/U] To get Master 1600 (11.412) in the future one will also have to do these 9 schools, presumable having already done them and the asssesments for CM1600. Is this “5 schools only deal” related to the Master1600 having already done these “9 [U]other [/U]schools”??:confused: If so why repeat any of them for CM Unl? Maybe the 5 school requirement is for those, like me, that haven’t yet attended any Master/CM courses?
As a Master1600/2nd Mate holder, If what I read will means that I only need 5 courses to go to CM Unl, that’s great but I’d just as soon do all 9 courses and go straight to Master Unl, which the proposal as now written allows. If holders of Master1600 alone can crossover to CM Unl by doing 5 courses and then do the other 4 courses before moving up to Master Unl that is an advantage.
Anyone want to read it and come up with an interpetation? I’m not confused but do have lots of questions about these “schools”:smiley: