I know that we dont have to take courses in order to upgrade to CM/M unlimited any longer, but does anyone have insight on the assessments. Specifically, a few of the shiphandling assessments require you to be on a container ship of greater than 10,000 gt with a single screw right hand turning propeller. a few of the stability assessments are similar. Is this actually the case? or can I get these assessments signed of on any unlimited vessel?
and yes, I have been searching through the forums before i posed the question.
[QUOTE=kemosabi;135395]I know that we dont have to take courses in order to upgrade to CM/M unlimited any longer, but does anyone have insight on the assessments. Specifically, a few of the shiphandling assessments require you to be on a container ship of greater than 10,000 gt with a single screw right hand turning propeller. a few of the stability assessments are similar. Is this actually the case? or can I get these assessments signed of on any unlimited vessel?
and yes, I have been searching through the forums before i posed the question.
thanks in advance[/QUOTE]
Under the new rules, you do need courses to upgrade again. And no, you have to follow the assessments unless you find someone willing to put their license on the line to lie for you.
[QUOTE=Quimby;135632]There is a national checklist and an STCW checklist for chief mate over 3000gt. You still have to take classes.[/QUOTE]
Courses are only required for the STCW endorsements for Chief Mate and Master for 500 GT to 3,000 GT and 3,000 GT or More if you began service for the endorsement after March 24, 2014. If you began service for the endorsement before then, the only required courses are ones that you probably already took for OICNW: Bridge Resource Management, Advanced Firefighting, Proficiency in Survival Craft, and Basic Safety Training. Also ARPA and GMDSS for the endorsement to be valid for that equipment.
[QUOTE=jdcavo;135648]Courses are only required for the STCW endorsements for Chief Mate and Master for 5400 GT to 3,000 GT and 3,000 GT or More if you began service for the endorsement after March 24, 2014. If you began service for the endorsement before then, the only required courses are ones that you probably already took for OICNW: Bridge Resource Management, Advanced Firefighting, Proficiency in Survival Craft, and Basic Safety Training. Also ARPA and GMDSS for the endorsement to be valid for that equipment.[/QUOTE]
Firstly, thank you Mr. Cavo, for responding. But what about the 58 assessments? some of them are impossible to get signed off unless you are on a containership or if you take the courses. are the assessments not required unless your sea time started after march 24th either? unless that is the case, it seems as though the courses arent required…but they are still required.
[QUOTE=kemosabi;135689]Firstly, thank you Mr. Cavo, for responding. But what about the 58 assessments? some of them are impossible to get signed off unless you are on a containership or if you take the courses. are the assessments not required unless your sea time started after march 24th either? unless that is the case, it seems as though the courses arent required…but they are still required.[/QUOTE]
The assessments are required under both the old and new rules.
Updated - - -
[QUOTE=kemosabi;135395]I know that we dont have to take courses in order to upgrade to CM/M unlimited any longer, but does anyone have insight on the assessments. Specifically, a few of the shiphandling assessments require you to be on a container ship of greater than 10,000 gt with a single screw right hand turning propeller. a few of the stability assessments are similar. Is this actually the case? or can I get these assessments signed of on any unlimited vessel?
and yes, I have been searching through the forums before i posed the question.
thanks in advance[/QUOTE]
I haven’t gone and re-checked all of them, but I am pretty sure that none of the shiphandling assessments call for them to be done on a ship of at least 10,000 gross tons and I am positive that none of the ship handling assessments have to be done on a container ship. I am almost positive the only requirement on the ship handling assessments is that they be done on a simulator or a vessel of 1,600 GRT/3,000 GT.
[QUOTE=jdcavo;135743]The assessments are required under both the old and new rules.
Updated - - -
I haven’t gone and re-checked all of them, but I am pretty sure that none of the shiphandling assessments call for them to be done on a ship of at least 10,000 gross tons and I am positive that none of the ship handling assessments have to be done on a container ship. I am almost positive the only requirement on the ship handling assessments is that they be done on a simulator or a vessel of 1,600 GRT/3,000 GT.[/QUOTE]
Mr Cavo, a lot of the shiphandling assessments do not require 10,000 gross tons, however they do require a single screw vessel of greater than 3,000. A few of the stability assessments, such as M-9-1B requires a ship of 10,000 GRT. Im getting this off of the NMC policy letter 04-02. are these the correct assessments?
[QUOTE=jdcavo;135743]The assessments are required under both the old and new rules.
Updated - - -
I haven’t gone and re-checked all of them, but I am pretty sure that none of the shiphandling assessments call for them to be done on a ship of at least 10,000 gross tons and I am positive that none of the ship handling assessments have to be done on a container ship. I am almost positive the only requirement on the ship handling assessments is that they be done on a simulator or a vessel of 1,600 GRT/3,000 GT.[/QUOTE]
The performance condition for assessment M-9-1A of policy letter 04-02 states: "[I]On a ship, or in a stability laboratory, given Coast Guard approved stability software for a containership of atleast 10,000 gross registered tons, and during a loading of 500 containers and a discharge of at least 700 containers[/I]
so does the ship have to be a containership or is that just for the simulator? the shiphandling assessments are similar but just state that the vessel has to be a “single screw, right hand turning propeller of greater than 3,000 gt”. Since I am on a twin screw vessel, i guess it doesnt meet that requirement? or is this again referring to what the simulator needs?
it sounds like that one might be one of the ones for stability, you can use the stability program to do it.
I don’t remember any of the assessments having to be done onboard any specific type of ship
yes JP that assessment is a stability one. But it was an example of an assessment that needs to be accomplished on a specific type of ship as I interpret it. The shiphandling assessments do not require a specific type of cargo ship BUT they do require a single screw vessel, once again, as I interpret it. When i originally posted, I misspoke in haste and combined the two types of assessments.
so basically as I see it, the majority of the assessments can be accomplished on any unlimited ship. The exception to this rule that i see are the stability assessments (which require a 10,000 gt containership) and the shiphandling assessments (which require a vessel with a single screw). If I am wrong, then I would love to know it, otherwise it looks like the only way to accomplish this is to take Adv Stability and Advanced shiphandling.
[QUOTE=kemosabi;135869]yes JP that assessment is a stability one. But it was an example of an assessment that needs to be accomplished on a specific type of ship as I interpret it. The shiphandling assessments do not require a specific type of cargo ship BUT they do require a single screw vessel, once again, as I interpret it. When i originally posted, I misspoke in haste and combined the two types of assessments.
so basically as I see it, the majority of the assessments can be accomplished on any unlimited ship. The exception to this rule that i see are the stability assessments (which require a 10,000 gt containership) and the shiphandling assessments (which require a vessel with a single screw). If I am wrong, then I would love to know it, otherwise it looks like the only way to accomplish this is to take Adv Stability and Advanced shiphandling.
is this the case?[/QUOTE]
I really believe no matter what it is hard to honestly get all of the shiphandling assessments completed on a vessel. If I remember there were some ones while using the anchor, not sure how many Captains will allow this if not needed, probably none. Taking the class will alleviate all of this pressure on you. I suggest taking the class.
So… from what I understand is. All I need for the stability assesments is a classroom with the USCG approved stability software for a vessel over 10000 GRT. And if I take one engine out of gear, will the vessel assesments for a single screw qualify ? Working with what I’ve got here, because I’m in the same boat !
Has anybody found an approved stability software (sheets) for a container ship of at least 10,000 grt?
Better yet, has anybody recently submitted the assessments from policy letter 04-02 for the STCW endorsement as Master 3000 GT or More (Management Level) to correspond to the National Master (OSV) of More than 3,000 GT (Large OSV)?
(Before the pointy sticks come out, I realize that NVIC 10-14 is published, however, utilizing PL 04-02 seems the better option (until 12/31/16) for mariners who began sea service prior to March 24, 2014)
The stability sheets for a container ship are (or at least were) the ones that are already in the 04-02 packet with the rest of the other assessment sheets. The tanker ones are the ones that were separate.
This stuff gets more and more confusing as we go along… now I see why I stayed a 2/M so long.
Any rate, I have some questions that maybe someone here knows the answers to!
Can a 1600 master sign off the assessments? If not, what about a 6000 master?
I know I can upgrade under either the old or new assessments, but if I do the old assessment (no classes) I hear in 2017 I’ll be bumped back to 2/M if I don’t take these classes. I know I have to take that management class, but I’m talking about advanced ship handling, advanced stability, etc. Is this true?
[QUOTE=KrustySalt;139716]… 1) Can a 1600 master sign off the assessments? If not, what about a 6000 master? [/QUOTE]
From NVIC 10-14: “the Coast Guard will accept assessments signed by mariners who hold an appropriate national endorsement and have at least 1 yearof experience as Master orChief Mate on seagoing vessels of at least 1,600 GRT and/or 3,000 GT…”
[QUOTE=KrustySalt;139716]… 2) I know I can upgrade under either the old or new assessments, but if I do the old assessment (no classes) I hear in 2017 I’ll be bumped back to 2/M if I don’t take these classes. I know I have to take that management class, but I’m talking about advanced ship handling, advanced stability, etc. Is this true?[/QUOTE]
Thanks for your response Mr. Cavo. I have been working on the control sheets from PL 04-02. I am trying to figure out how to complete assessments M-9-1A thru M-9-1D (stability), which read: “PERFORMANCE CONDITION: On a ship, or in a stability laboratory, given Coast Guard approved stability software [U]FOR[/U] a container ship of at least 10,000 gross registered tons…” I do not work on a container ship of at least 10,000 gross registered tons (nor does it say anywhere in 04-02 that the assessment has to be done ON a ship of at least 10,000 grt). I do however work on a vessel over 3,000 GT. My interpretation of the control sheet is that if I find “Coast Guard approved stability software [U]FOR[/U] a container ship of at least 10,000 gross registered tons”, and use this for the prescribed calculations, this would meet the Performance Condition listed in these assessments. Your thoughts?
I was hoping someone on gCaptain might have access to a Coast Guard approved stability sheet (excel sheet, calculations, etc) FOR a container ship of at least 10,000 grt, or had advice on how to get this signed off without taking an advanced stability class.
From NVIC 10-14: “the Coast Guard will accept assessments signed by mariners who hold an appropriate national endorsement and have at least 1 year of experience as Master or Chief Mate on seagoing vessels of at least 1,600 GRT and/or 3,000 GT…”
Sounds to me like a Master (OSV) 6,000 GT/ITC (having at least 1 year experience) meets the requirements to sign off on the chief mate / master (management) assessments. (PL 04/02 or NVIC 10-14)
[QUOTE=SaltyBM;139759]Thanks for your response Mr. Cavo. I have been working on the control sheets from PL 04-02. I am trying to figure out how to complete assessments M-9-1A thru M-9-1D (stability), which read: “PERFORMANCE CONDITION: On a ship, or in a stability laboratory, given Coast Guard approved stability software [U]FOR[/U] a container ship of at least 10,000 gross registered tons…” I do not work on a container ship of at least 10,000 gross registered tons (nor does it say anywhere in 04-02 that the assessment has to be done ON a ship of at least 10,000 grt). I do however work on a vessel over 3,000 GT. My interpretation of the control sheet is that if I find “Coast Guard approved stability software [U]FOR[/U] a container ship of at least 10,000 gross registered tons”, and use this for the prescribed calculations, this would meet the Performance Condition listed in these assessments. Your thoughts?
I was hoping someone on gCaptain might have access to a Coast Guard approved stability sheet (excel sheet, calculations, etc) FOR a container ship of at least 10,000 grt, or had advice on how to get this signed off without taking an advanced stability class.[/QUOTE]
An excel sheet is not the same as CG approved software.